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Apple's apps bypass firewalls like LittleSnitch and LuLu on macOS Big Sur

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Re: Apple's apps bypass firewalls like LittleSnitch and LuLu on macOS Big Sur

#441

Post by heavyset_go »

LocalH wrote: post #233
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could (and perhaps would) make the same argument about Intel (for providing the processor) or Broadcom (for providing the wifi chip) or Comcast (for providing internet service). And it's true, all of these parties have the ability to use their positions for nefarious purposes. However, I would like to limit that potential as much as possible, partly by creating a stigma against practices that remove control from…

I find it interesting how the needs of legitimate security mesh so well with the industry desires to kill off general-purpose computing for the majority of users

As is usual, this is something Stallman had touched upon years ago[1].

[1] https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/can-you-trust.en.html

Re: Apple's apps bypass firewalls like LittleSnitch and LuLu on macOS Big Sur

#442

Post by kevincox »

kitsunesoba wrote: post #169
adambatkin wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Linux on the desktop and Linux on the laptop (heh) has definitely improved. It _sometimes_ needs a little tweaking to get it right, but KDE/Plasma also happens to offer that level of "tweakability" that should satisfy almost all semi-mainstream users (at least anyone coming from Windows or Mac). Compared to my first Linux laptop (a Sony Vaio circa 2000), my current XPS 13 works as well as any Mac laptop I have ever o…

I try the major DEs every few years to see if they fit me, most recently trying the newest KDE and GNOME versions in a VM about a month ago. Both have improved for sure, but they still have a long way to go… GNOME actually came closest but its customizability level is even lower than that of macOS, even factoring in extensions. Both suffer from a laundry list of minor annoyances that snowball into something that's ha…

> Both suffer from a laundry list of minor annoyances that snowball into something that's hard to ignore

This sounds just like your familiarity. I could have used the exact same sentence to describe how I feel using macOS for work after being used to Linux (GNOME) for 8 years.

When you use something for a while you learn to avoid all the bugs and the UX starts to feel natural. Any switch will end up in you running into new bugs and finding the UX odd, no matter if it is to or from macOS, Windows, GNOME, KDE or otherwise.

I would say that I run into 10x more bugs on macOS than GNOME. But that probably isn't because there are 10x more bugs. There is likely a comparable number on GNOME but I have learned to subconsciously avoid most of them.

Re: Apple's apps bypass firewalls like LittleSnitch and LuLu on macOS Big Sur

#443

Post by munificent »

zepto wrote: post #232
munificent wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Boycotting is not an effective strategy for addressing oligopolies. You need actual strong anti-trust regulation.

Except that it’s not an oligopoly - it can’t be by definition. There is a free alternative which is better in many ways and has an unlimited supply. The only reason Apple has a lead in software is that they have made their closed source model deliver end-user benefits at a faster rate than the open source alternatives. There is no reason this needs to remain true, and there are a lot of signs that it will not continu…

> free alternative

Only "free" in terms of literal monetary payments to acquire the operating system. But the choice between Apple's stack and other Linux stacks has many trade-offs in terms of time, support, documentation, complexity, transition cost, etc.

Re: Apple's apps bypass firewalls like LittleSnitch and LuLu on macOS Big Sur

#444

Post by jeroenhd »

Siira wrote: post #374
derrick_jensen wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the value props was the inability to reset and resell if it were lost or stolen. Now that it’s cracked there is more of an incentive to not try and find the owner. As for actual data security you are probably right

Is the crack in hardware or software? Any links on it? I thought the iPhones at least could not be reset by thieves?

A demo of the T2 hardware exploit on iMacs can be found here: https://blog.t8012.dev/plug-n-pwn/

From what I could find, the encryption keys of the T2 are still secure but the OS running on it is not. Wiping the SSD and/or repairing another might be enough to resell the device without any locks but I'm not 100% sure about that.

Re: Apple's apps bypass firewalls like LittleSnitch and LuLu on macOS Big Sur

#445

Post by Dylan16807 »

dylan604 wrote: post #100
eptcyka wrote: post #21

Apple seems to do all kinds of weird networking _stuff_. For instance, during wakeup, your T2 equipped Macbook will wait for a DNS response and then use said DNS response to synchronize time via NTP before letting the user use the keyboard. Probably checking timestamps on signatures for the keyboard firmware, or something stupid like that. This only happens if it happens to have a default route. Similarly, all macOS…

Apple touted the T2 chip as the bee's knees in security. Now, we have a vulnerability that cannot be defended against. However, Apple went all in on the security of this T2 chip so that you cannot replace the SSD (besides the method to manufacture). I appreciate the desire at making a device difficult for a bad actor to get to your data, but they epicly failed and ultimately only made an user-hostile device. Oh, and…

> Apple went all in on the security of this T2 chip so that you cannot replace the SSD

That's not a security thing, really. It's easy enough to layer encryption on a normal SSD. It's their desire to make it some kind of do-everything auxiliary chip, which has the end result of weakening security.

Re: Apple's apps bypass firewalls like LittleSnitch and LuLu on macOS Big Sur

#446

Post by addicted »

3pt14159 wrote: post #198
addicted wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there anything Apple can do that makes their platform less accessible to the users that you would not support?

Absolutely. For example, I think that the lockdown of the bios was a move that hobbled developers like myself that installed custom bios extensions. I used to be able to run raw linux on real hardware. Now I need to use a commercial virtual machine just to get the dev environment I want. The difference between the two is subtle, but true. I want true masters that understand what the tradeoffs are to make those hard c…

I appreciate the response. I suspect you’re missing the many ways in which this change can negatively impact valid and fairly frequent advanced usages of macs, in a way similar to the BIOS change you mentioned.

When I was in college, Little Snitch was an absolute must for using Macs in our networking labs, because it was the best way to analyze and control our network. Without it the mac was not a feasible option.

This change by Apple would have essentially eliminated the macs use in several of these experiments, and I suspect that’s true today as well.

Further, this has a regular advanced user impact as well, for users on metered networks who would like to control their data usage.

Re: Apple's apps bypass firewalls like LittleSnitch and LuLu on macOS Big Sur

#447

Post by ohmaigad »

rorykoehler wrote: post #303
simonklitj wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if you have a model with ports only on the left-hand side? Does it crash it as well?

I'm not sure. I have a 2019 mbp 16 with a dodgy logic board and while it crashes even without charging on the left it definitely crashes more often when charging on the left. I'm stuck in limbo because I need my machine for work. Will take it in when I have a break. Some threads https://discussions.apple.com/thread/250905859 https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/2019-16-inch-macbook-pr...

I also have 2019 MBP16 and i am using a dock/charging on the left side - i think the system froze once in a year so i don't seem to have this issue.

Re: Apple's apps bypass firewalls like LittleSnitch and LuLu on macOS Big Sur

#448

Post by Dylan16807 »

radlad wrote: post #286
mulmen wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh? When I’m out socializing there’s no spying to do. But as soon as I get back I will just log in and the spying begins. I’m so accustomed to flaky peripherals with Apple products I wouldn’t even be alarmed at the behavior.

I think you misunderstand. The idea is that if your keyboard is replaced with a keyboard that has modified (hacked) firmware, your computer will refuse to let you use it. To do this, it must obtain a cryptographic attestation from the keyboard firmware, proving that it has not been modified. Further, to avoid replay attacks it must include the current time in the message it signs. NTP is used by macOS to determine th…

> Further, to avoid replay attacks it must include the current time in the message it signs.

Use a counter...?

Re: Apple's apps bypass firewalls like LittleSnitch and LuLu on macOS Big Sur

#450

Post by Wowfunhappy »

DiederikvandenB wrote: post #440
Sporktacular wrote: post #435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trust but verify. Now we must do the former without being able to do the latter.

You can very easily monitor all outgoing traffic through an external device.

You can’t filter per-app, however, which is a key selling point of Little Snitch.
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