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USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

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Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#441

Post by floatingatoll »

danhor wrote: post #349
floatingatoll wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Word of warning, for those reading this far: The Switch and Switch Dock are not USB-C devices. That you’re able to plug in a USB-C charger or USB-C device and see it supposedly work just means that you haven’t yet encountered the scenario(s) that can electronically damage the Switch. Nintendo’s warranty does not cover this damage when it occurs, requiring a full-cost repair or replacement as you connected unlicensed…

The Brick-Gate issue, where many switches where bricked, was not an issue with generic chargers, but specifically 3rd party docks. And, as it turns out, the issue in that case wasn't on the switch side, but the manufacturers of the 3rd party docks, that used 9v on a normal signal pin (cc) [very much not spec compliant], which destroyed the pd chip inside the switch: https://hackaday.com/2019/08/04/the-not-quite-usb-c…

That is excellent news!

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#442

Post by floatingatoll »

hobofan wrote: post #400
floatingatoll wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Word of warning, for those reading this far: The Switch and Switch Dock are not USB-C devices. That you’re able to plug in a USB-C charger or USB-C device and see it supposedly work just means that you haven’t yet encountered the scenario(s) that can electronically damage the Switch. Nintendo’s warranty does not cover this damage when it occurs, requiring a full-cost repair or replacement as you connected unlicensed…

How are there multiple people here in the thread that say that the port on the Switch is not a USB-C port, when it says so in the official specs _right on their website_? https://www.nintendo.com/switch/tech-specs

I think I'm wrong, honestly, given the two replies to my two comments on the matter. It's too late to edit them but I am upvoting those replies anyways!

I do think there's still the matter of "Not all USB-PD adapters provide the specific electrical demands of a Switch or Switch Dock" to contend with — and that does tie back to the original article's point about USB-C being kind of a nightmare.

EDIT: There are still reports of someone frying a Switch with an Apple USB-C power adapter (which is USB-C compliant), no dock or anything involved. Whatever else does or doesn't work, Nintendo won't cover damage under warranty if you used a third-party charger.

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#443

Post by crote »

sbierwagen wrote: post #436
crote wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I own a 4k @ 60Hz monitor. If I were to buy a laptop, I'd like to connect it and a bunch of USB devices via a single USB C cable. Easy, right? Except that the monitor only supports DisplayPort 1.2. 4k60 requires a bandwidth of 12.54 Gbit/s. DP 1.2 consists of four data lanes, each providing 4.32 GBit/s, so my monitor requires four full lanes. DP 1.3 and up provide at least 7.48 Gbit/s, so 4k60 would only require two…

An external GPU box would work for you, since the offboard GPU would have a full-bandwidth link to the monitor. Depending on which GPU you put in it, though, it would probably be cheaper to buy a new monitor.

That would absolutely be a (albeit very expensive) solution, I didn't even think of that! But that would require Thunderbolt support, which is still a bit rare. And I don't think that would support USB at the same time, right?

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#444

Post by Rebelgecko »

buzzerbetrayed wrote: post #19
jeremymcanally wrote: post #4

Really? I find it to be a game changer for me. The fact that my laptop, Switch, iPad, and several other devices can all share a charge has made my life much easier. I can just sprinkle a few of them throughout the house and never be without power. Before it was always a hunt to find a cable, or I had to be in [x] room to charge [y] device because that's where the charger lived. Plus, I can charge my MacBook on either…

Did you not read the article? Because your response doesn’t address any of the issues brought up in the article. Mainly that all the usb-c cables you sprinkle across your house might not have the same functionality. And if you plug your switch in to one it might charge it, while another will not.

FWIW I've never had an issue with the cables. The only time USB-C has bitten me is when trying to charge a device using a charger meant for a lower tier of hardware. I've never had any issues with USB-PD chargers. For example my MBP charger works on everything. My phone chargers don't work at all on my cheap Chinese laptop, but they'll trickle charge my MBP (which has honestly been a lifesaver). Even my $20 battery pack will get me a few hours of laptop life

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#445

Post by crote »

rubatuga wrote: post #413
crote wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, but try explaining to your non-technical friend with two monitors why connecting their laptop to both via USB C works, but their phone only gives video output on one. There are at least 5 ways to transfer video over USB C: Straight USB, HDMI alternate mode, DisplayPort alternate mode, MHL alternate mode, and Thunderbolt. Then it's also possible for an alternate mode to only use a subset of the available lanes,…

You are technically correct, but in reality, 99% of video goes over USB-C as displayport. Even USB-C to hdmi dongles have a conversion chipset in it.

Really? I wasn't aware about the HDMI dongle thing!

But yeah, you're right of course - I'm being pedantic. Yet it still worries me that those are all officially supported as part of the USB C standards. It's confusing even when everyone is following the standards, and it gets even worse when vendors start ignoring them. It's definitely not making it any easier.

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#446

Post by crote »

jayd16 wrote: post #366
crote wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"If it fits, it works" is pretty easy to explain. An adapter cable is also easy to explain: it fits, so it will work. With USB C, there are scenarios where you can have an adapter cable and it'll still not work.

>"If it fits, it works" is pretty easy to explain. It also isn't correct. It wasn't true as far as VGA and DVI adapters were concerned. Nor is it true for connecting two HDMI-In ports, for example.

If I recall correctly, DVI had three main variants: -I, -A, and -D. A DVI-to-VGA adapter would have a DVI-A plug. The video card would have either DVI-I or DVI-D. If the card had DVI-D, it only offered digital and the DVI-A plug would not physically fit. If the card had DVI-I, it would offer both analog and digital and both DVI-A and DVI-D would fit. So, if it fits it works!

And yeah, the HDMI thing is of course true, I'll give you that. :-)

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#447

Post by 542354234235 »

shadowgovt wrote: post #373
542354234235 wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Multiply that by millions of people and 10s of millions of devices and it is a pretty big deal. How is advocating for a standard so that every purchase wasn’t a crap shoot a bad thing? Having to sort through reviews just to attempt to determine basic functionality is ridiculous. I don’t read reviews to find out of a table lamp will plug into the wall because the basic standard of delivery power over a power cable is…

It took quite a long time to get to where you could assume an arbitrary table lamp plugged into an arbitrary wall socket would work.

Yes, because people worked on implementing a standard, and we are all better for it.

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#448

Post by pbhjpbhj »

teorema wrote: post #372
lambada wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interestingly in the UK, Nintendo _explicitly_ label it as a USB-C port. I'm not sure if they do or not elsewhere, but they definitely claim it's a USB-C port 'for AC charging' over here. https://imgur.com/a/fwTM699

That to me, is the key boundary being crossed, like enough to merit a large-class action award for any damages sustained anywhere by anyone who plugged a USB-C device into the port. I do think there's something to be said for liability for creating a port that is so similar to USB-C, but also causing damage, akin to copyright laws, based on consumer confusion. I.e., if a reasonable person might think it is a variant…

We don't really have class-actions in UK but under the Consumer Rights Act (CRA replaced the well known Sale of Goods Act) there's no time limit on when you can get manufacturing defects fixed so warranty repairs should be free (although you might also accept a brand new replacement and pay a little to cover the wear on your original).

In the EU there's an automatic 2 year replacement warranty on electronics too.

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#449

Post by bluedino »

martin_a wrote: post #57
bluedino wrote: post #32

I have an LG 4K monitor, a MacBook Pro, and Sony headphones that charge over USB-C, so in that scenario USB=C has been bliss. But with older machines/monitors, I need a pile of adapters. Still, I like it-for the most part. The worst thing about USB-C is the dock situation for laptops. None of them are perfect, and most of them are garbage. $200-300 is a bit hard to swallow when I've been buying Lenovo docks for $50 f…

Are you using a Lenovo USB-C dock? Are you happy with it? My work laptop is a Dell and their USB-C dock seems to work just fine (at least for me).

I'm not, but we have Lenovo USB-C docks at the office, as we have Lenovo laptops. They're all buggy. I'm still using a traditional dock as mine hasn't been upgraded yet so I still have the port.
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