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Finland to give dads same parental leave as mums

bbc.com

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Re: Finland to give dads same parental leave as mums

#441

Post by hobbes78 »

JackFr wrote: post #384

Where does the money come from? I'm an American and so I'm less familiar with other countries policies. I get that mandating a very generous family leave policy is wonderful for parents and good for society. To me it seems it's gotta be tough for small business owners though. A business of lets say 8 employees simply cannot afford a paid six month leave without it impacting its performance. How is that handled in tho…

In most of Europe, the company doesn't pay anything, so it isn't tough for it. Every worker contributes a percentage for the Social Security, so basically the cost gets diluted among all tax payers.

Re: Finland to give dads same parental leave as mums

#442

Post by jonnycomputer »

petercooper wrote: post #240

I'm a dad (of three) and I am not convinced that time spent at the very start of their lives is as significant as that later in their lives (note the "as", I am not saying it has no value!) when you can really nurture their passions, knowledge, etc. I did spend a lot of time with my children in their earliest days because it was the right thing to do, but I don't feel either they or I particularly gained from it (tha…

It is so hard to know the effect on the children. But the effect on your spouse of having someone else around to help? The first couple of months are tough!

Re: Finland to give dads same parental leave as mums

#443

Post by cies »

jonplackett wrote: post #333
petercooper wrote: post #240

I'm a dad (of three) and I am not convinced that time spent at the very start of their lives is as significant as that later in their lives (note the "as", I am not saying it has no value!) when you can really nurture their passions, knowledge, etc. I did spend a lot of time with my children in their earliest days because it was the right thing to do, but I don't feel either they or I particularly gained from it (tha…

I think this is missing the point of equal parental leave and how it creates equality - it's for the mum just as much as the dad, so she can now get a bit of her life back earlier. I took 3 months leave (wish it was more) when my daughter was born, spread out through the year a month at a time. I loved each month for different reasons and I know each month helped me understand what my wife was dealing with better and…

Equality before the low == not discriminating in the law.

Now if it say "mom has X leave after birth and dad Y", this is discrimination in the law.

Please note im not saying this is bad, im just saying it is NOT equality.

Re: Finland to give dads same parental leave as mums

#444

Post by dang »

socialdemocrat wrote: post #194
keanzu wrote: post #175

> noticed about Norway when we were in Oslo A lot can be achieved when your country floats on oil. The Government Pension Fund Global, aka the Oil Fund, was worth about $195,000 per Norwegian citizen in 2018. If others had this kind of safety net they might behave in a similar manner. Petrostates can afford a lot of leisure time for their citizens.

The stupidity of people these days. This was literally an article about Finland and paternal leave. A country which has no oil. Literally EVERY single Nordic country has this kind of system. Not just Norway. And Norway had this BEFORE we had any oil. Never mind the whole inconsistency in your rant. Why do you think the oil fund is so F...ing huge? Because we DON'T spend a lot of oil money. We save it.

Please don't respond to a bad comment with a worse one. It helps nothing—it only makes the thread worse yet.

The last thing we need here is nationalistic flamewar, and when it comes to flamewar, the second escalation is often the turning point and therefore the thing most to be avoided.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Finland to give dads same parental leave as mums

#445

Post by dang »

keanzu wrote: post #175

> noticed about Norway when we were in Oslo A lot can be achieved when your country floats on oil. The Government Pension Fund Global, aka the Oil Fund, was worth about $195,000 per Norwegian citizen in 2018. If others had this kind of safety net they might behave in a similar manner. Petrostates can afford a lot of leisure time for their citizens.

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22247305 and marked it off-topic.

Re: Finland to give dads same parental leave as mums

#446

Post by Moru »

scruple wrote: post #433
Jolter wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Swedish parental leave can be saved until the kid turns 12. Not that the 480 days will last that long, of course!

Is that per parent or is it shared between parents? That really sounds incredible, going to have to remember to look this up.

It's 240 days per parent.

Re: Finland to give dads same parental leave as mums

#447

Post by Moru »

petercooper wrote: post #277
Jolter wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Swedish parental leave can be saved until the kid turns 12. Not that the 480 days will last that long, of course!

That sounds like a good idea and what I think would be better for everyone. Of course, then it's a case of avoiding the temptation of taking it too early(!) :)

If you wait too long, it's hard to find time that isn't taken by school already :-)

Re: Finland to give dads same parental leave as mums

#448

Post by dang »

romaaeterna wrote: post #142

My family is of Norwegian extraction and I'm a dad too. My wife has a completely different relationship with my kids than I do. She also had to go through a great deal more to birth them than I did. Her parental leave was as much about medical recovery as it was bonding time with the kids. And, to put this delicately, but as something that needs to be stated because it's true and important for the discussion: she has…

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22247178.

This comment starts off fine. Sharing personal experience is nearly always ok and interesting and good HN material. But please don't go the way of your last paragraph here. Escalations like "if you are not emotionally autistic" and "he is likely a broken individual" are guaranteed to activate someone, and that way lies flamewar—completely needlessly.

When you post to HN, you're broadcasting to thousands if not hundreds of thousands of readers. It feels like a small and intimate conversation, which has a lot of advantages, but on this point that feeling is misleading.

Re: Finland to give dads same parental leave as mums

#449

Post by Moru »

gvjddbnvdrbv wrote: post #416
petercooper wrote: post #240

I'm a dad (of three) and I am not convinced that time spent at the very start of their lives is as significant as that later in their lives (note the "as", I am not saying it has no value!) when you can really nurture their passions, knowledge, etc. I did spend a lot of time with my children in their earliest days because it was the right thing to do, but I don't feel either they or I particularly gained from it (tha…

The experience of paternity leave is quite intense. It's not all fun. E.g. long nights when baby is sick or teething and the baby's mum has to go to work the next day so she has to sleep and the long night goes straight into a difficult day. As someone that thought I spent a lot of time with my baby before starting pappperm it was an awakening - but also a wonderful bonding experience. Yes time as a baby is important…

Or what about the mother damaged by the birth not able to take care of the baby so the father is doing it all for the first month(s), both day and night?

Re: Finland to give dads same parental leave as mums

#450

Post by blub »

jimmaswell wrote: post #273
socialdemocrat wrote: post #22

Good job Finland! Fellow Nordic here (Norwegian) and a dad. The father quota here in Norway made a huge social change. It really helped make it socially acceptable for dads to spend more time with their children. I noticed for my two sons how much of a difference it makes being around your kids when they are young. You cannot cannot substitute short time with "quality time." The amount of time you are there matters a…

> I think it is healthy for children to have both a mother and father who is actively present in their lives. Not sure how literally this was meant (and a lot of the rest of the thread assuming a mother/father) but studies show kids do just as well with two parents of any gender.

Please cite the studies. It seems at least impossible that babies of a male-male couple could do as well as those where the baby is raised by its biological mother even only because of the advantages of breastfeeding.
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