Goodbye, New York, California and Illinois – Hello where? • Hacker News Board

Re: Goodbye, New York, California and Illinois – Hello where?

#441

Post by m_ke » Sat, Jan 18, 2020, 2:39 AM UTC

tmh79 wrote: post #292

m_ke wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "boom" is relative to all of 2000s. Look at the number of permits in 2015 [1], especially in the outer boroughs. My argument, as someone who grew up in Brooklyn and Queens, is that building new housing doesn't really drive the prices down. I have a lot of friends who had to move or shut down their small businesses because of the rising costs. [1]( https://www.buildingcongress.com/advocacy-and-reports/report... )…

"building new housing doesn't really drive the prices down" there is a lot of empirical evidence against this claim, and almost no evidence for it. Rising costs in cities are due to a few factors: (1) lack of new housing, (2) changing economic conditions in which high paying jobs are moving from the suburbs to the cities (to be fair, there is a small factor in very few cities of super rich people buying housing and n…

I agree with you that on aggregate across most cities all of this holds, but it's not alway the case for top cities like SF and NYC, where the true demand is way higher than potential supply.

I'm not a NIMBY type and am not complaining about gentrification but am speaking to the fact that building new housing in Williamsburg and LIC helped double average housing prices in the surrounding areas [1]. I used to hang out in williamsburg in the late 90s and early 2000s, when it was an industrial area and bushwick when it was a complete dump. All of the yuppies who live here now would have never stepped a foot in brooklyn/queens if these areas weren't rezoned. I live in Greenpoint now and pay over 3x more than my grandmother used to pay for a similar apartment 2 blocks away from the early 90s till late 2000s.

We should definitely build more housing, but we also need to admit that rising income inequality is the real problem here. A large portion of our country has not seen their wages grow and are a medical emergency away from living on the streets. SV is home to worlds most valuable companies, it might be time for them to start paying their taxes so we can provide a safety net for people who need it like every other developed nation.

[1] https://www.propertyshark.com/Real-Estate-Reports/2015/10/14...

Re: Goodbye, New York, California and Illinois – Hello where?

#442

Post by jelliclesfarm » Sat, Jan 18, 2020, 2:40 AM UTC

sjg007 wrote: post #426

jedberg wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being priced out of one's home is a red herring that the low tax zealots want you to believe to keep prop 13 in place. Somehow in the 49 other states that don't have Prop 13, people aren't priced out of their homes from taxes. There are other options. There are home equity lines, reverse mortgages, or even freezing tax payments and adding them as liens on the property at time of transfer. But even if you're worried a…

With a partial repeal they should also do away with the generational tax transfer. There’s no good reason to maintain an aristocracy.

That never comes up..the same tech sector working population want to pass their fortunes to their children through trusts and tax planning. I have seen them bristle when I suggested that their kids should pay taxes on their inheritance. It would be hilarious if it weren’t so hypocritical

Re: Goodbye, New York, California and Illinois – Hello where?

#443

Post by lotsofpulp » Sat, Jan 18, 2020, 2:41 AM UTC

GhettoChild wrote: post #285

lotsofpulp wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No parental leave, assisted suicide, sick leave, non competes are allowed, their schools leaders are religious and backwards, still fighting abortion rights, illegal marijuana, etc.

Unless those issues affect a person directly then they don't care.

Some people care about the welfare of others. I believe society is better if mothers and fathers are given time to care for a newborn, and beyond with sick days. And I don’t know anyone who isn’t affected by assisted suicide seeing as how no one has figured out how to escape diseases such as Alzheimer’s or dementia or cancer.

Re: Goodbye, New York, California and Illinois – Hello where?

#444

Post by seanmcdirmid » Sat, Jan 18, 2020, 2:41 AM UTC

Daegalus wrote: post #439

jedberg wrote: post #55

Every person I know who's left California did it because of housing costs (except for one, who did it to get away from "the damn liberal government that wants to take my guns"). We have a major housing cost crisis in this state, as well as a big NIMBY problem. There have been good solutions run up through the state house, that either fail to pass or get so watered down they are no longer effective, in large part beca…

I'll chime in and say that I just moved from California to Washington in September of last year. While its not a huge change, its enough to make a difference. Factors on why I did it: - Housing costs #1. I got into a rent controlled 2 bedroom 1100 sqft duplex unit. It was ok, but the landlord sucked and the place was very unmaintained, and i was paying $2800 a month. No yard, no garage, tons of homeless around diggin…

> Washington has no State tax

Surely you mean income tax. Oregon is the state that lacks sales tax and makes up for it with an income tax.

Also, I'm not sure why your grocery bill would go down compared to California. Moving from LA to Bellevue, I noticed groceries cost more up here. Both states don't apply sales tax to groceries, at least.

It also costs a bit more to eat out here vs. LA, at least at the low end. Probably prices are cheaper in LA than the Bay Area, however.

Re: Goodbye, New York, California and Illinois – Hello where?

#445

Post by jelliclesfarm » Sat, Jan 18, 2020, 2:42 AM UTC

inferiorhuman wrote: post #430

jelliclesfarm wrote: post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In California, public money is spent on things like gender reassignment surgeries for govt/public sector employees and prison inmates..we have student loan forgiveness schemes if you work for 3-5 years for the county...retirement at 50 for most law enforcement and Fire Dept employees. Billions of dollars in pension funds and unfunded pension liabilities. Mayor Newsom just increased funds homelessness by another one b…

And then they try to change prop 13 to punitively tax the senior citizenry and retirees on fixed income. I'm not going to bother digging into most of the rest of your claims but this is particularly disingenuous. Most of the recent attempts at changing Prop 13 have focused on a split roll that would keep the tax limits on primary residences. Putting grannie out on the street is exactly what the anti-tax zealots (Jarv…

That’s not what repealing prop 13 means..do you know the wording of prop 13?

Why should vacation homes be taxed? It’s is an asset. Imagine.. You buy a diamond ring..would you be asked to pay a use tax every time you wear it?

Re: Goodbye, New York, California and Illinois – Hello where?

#446

Post by dkwod023903 » Sat, Jan 18, 2020, 2:43 AM UTC

GhettoChild wrote: post #289

dkwod023903 wrote: post #252

Bay Area native here. The cost of living here has always been high, there have always been a lot of homeless people, and crime used to be worse. The tech industry has metastasized, overthrown the culture, and drained the soul out of the place. The ethos and pathos of the tech industry have undergone a transformation from creation to extraction. We shot for the moon and got surveillance capitalism and the "gig economy…

so many catchphrases and clichés in this post.

You hit it on the nose GhettoChild

Re: Goodbye, New York, California and Illinois – Hello where?

#447

Post by gok » Sat, Jan 18, 2020, 2:43 AM UTC

shaneprrlt wrote: post #70

Illinoisan here, have a lot of family and friends that have escaped. Escape is literally how they talk about it too. Most of the complaints I hear is about cost of living and property taxes. All the costs and taxes of a state like California, without any of the beautiful weather (except for 3 months of the year during summer). It's a big issue, and part of the reason, I believe, that they just legalized recreational…

I don't get this at all. Housing is easily half the price of California, and so is income tax.

Re: Goodbye, New York, California and Illinois – Hello where?

#448

Post by lotsofpulp » Sat, Jan 18, 2020, 2:44 AM UTC

ericfrenkiel wrote: post #414

bsder wrote: post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uh, yeah. Reality does bear out your theory. The extremes have been muted on both sides. Yes, if your views are at the extremes, you have less voice. That's a FEATURE , not a bug. And I feel no sympathy for you.

I would say it’s your own bias which is informing your opinion. California has only gotten more “progressive” with each election. If that makes you happy, I hope you understand that it’s “progressive” policy which has caused crime to explode, housing prices to rise, and people to leave the state.

I would say it’s the lack of mental healthcare and a social safety net that causes all of the above. And it’s not possible to address on a state level as all the other states would ship the problems to the state that tries to offer the benefits.

Re: Goodbye, New York, California and Illinois – Hello where?

#449

Post by mint2 » Sat, Jan 18, 2020, 2:46 AM UTC

silisili wrote: post #412

bronco21016 wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I first heard of this phenomenon the other day from a coworker that lives south of Atlanta, near the major movie/tv production area. People, from what are typically blue areas, are moving in and radically changing the political landscape according to him. He wasn’t necessarily against liberal ideas but his complaint was that they seem to vote for taxes just for the hell of it because every tax proposed is still signi…

This is a real problem, and a real concern IMO. People move from their home cities and states to nice areas with low tax, then continue voting for the same policies and ideologies that led to their home becoming awful in the first place. I live in a rather conservative area that sees an influx of New Yorkers every single year. They all seem to complain about two things: the high taxes they left, and Republicans. I'd…

You seem to have a lot of judging and questionable assumptions in your post.

Re: Goodbye, New York, California and Illinois – Hello where?

#450

Post by inferiorhuman » Sat, Jan 18, 2020, 2:48 AM UTC

njarboe wrote: post #344

tmh79 wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"building new housing doesn't really drive the prices down" there is a lot of empirical evidence against this claim, and almost no evidence for it. Rising costs in cities are due to a few factors: (1) lack of new housing, (2) changing economic conditions in which high paying jobs are moving from the suburbs to the cities (to be fair, there is a small factor in very few cities of super rich people buying housing and n…

I love cities, think they are great, and live in the Bay Area myself. I don't know how old you are, but much of the flight to suburbs was due to the building of freeways and the fear of nuclear attack on cities. Younger people did not grow up with bomb shelters and duck and cover drills at schools, so living in a big city is not something they fear. If we have a nuke or two blow up a few cities today, there might be…

I don't know old you are but duck and cover drills were a thing in the Bay Area well into the 80s (although typically for earthquakes not warfare).