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Uber loses licence to operate in London, will still operate while appealing

bbc.com

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Re: Uber loses licence to operate in London, will still operate while appealing

#441

Post by Jommi »

andy_ppp wrote: post #427
acallaghan wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The market is skewed as Uber runs huge losses and is operating at a loss, that's how it's different to other markets. Also, Uber are paying under the minimum wage in the UK, or at least the regional minimum living wage in London. Uber don't pay taxes in the UK like a London minicab company would, then they underpay their drivers and expect our welfare system to pick up the slack on their crummy wages. Minimum wages s…

If Uber had to buy the vehicles, service them and pay full tax and fines it would be nearly as expensive as black cabs. I take my fair share of Uber rides but I can see the next dot com bust happening now when this unprofitable business model all washes out. See also WeWork.

Yes if a company does something that is not in the core specialisations, they would be expensive. Who guessed?

Re: Uber loses licence to operate in London, will still operate while appealing

#442

Post by lmm »

thathndude wrote: post #200
harel wrote: post #198

I'm not a fan of companies like Uber or AirBnB who attempt a violent takeover of a market. However, as a consumer who needs to get from A to B, or stay at some random city, I find those services invaluable. The black cabs in London are expensive, never around when you need them, and until recently might have refused card payments (now they just seem unhappy about it). At the very least I was hoping Uber would make th…

Yep. I'm always amazed at how quickly people crap on Uber. In hindsight it's not a particularly revolutionary service. But does everyone remember how much the Taxi system sucked?

> But does everyone remember how much the Taxi system sucked?

In London? The suckage level was zero. Black cabs were fine. Reputable minicabs (Addison Lee etc.) were fine. Uber does not provide anything like enough improvement to justify the level of illegality it's riddled with.

Re: Uber loses licence to operate in London, will still operate while appealing

#443

Post by throwaway35784 »

harel wrote: post #366
throwaway35784 wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're not a fan of them but you'll gladly pay them your money? Sounds like righteous hypocrisy to me. I'm not a fan of them and I've never paid them any money, neither one. They are scum bags. How will the world improve if you reward what you don't like?

I'm not driven by ideology. And yes. I'm not a fan and I'll pay them if they provide me a service I need at a time I need it. I'm also not a fan of the government but I pay my taxes. I'm upset with Netflix for cancelling great shows but i pay my subscription fee. I despise my regular commute train line. Hate it to levels you cannot imagine - but guess from where I'm typing this? Google is scum, Facebook is scum, Twit…

It's not ideology.It's Pavlovian science. If you reward behavior, you get more of it.

Re: Uber loses licence to operate in London, will still operate while appealing

#444

Post by lmm »

quest88 wrote: post #391
maxehmookau wrote: post #226

I'm always amazed at how fatalist about this sort of thing Londoners are. Like losing Uber will be a massive problem for a huge portion of the population. London has, by FAR, the best, cheapest and most efficient public transport in the entire UK. Uber is, yeah, cheaper than a black cab but also why is it cheaper? Worse working conditions, VC-subsidised, lower standards for vetting (as we've seen here!) It's not sust…

I don't know what I'm missing, but why not let customers decide if they want to use a lower standards for vetting service, and let drivers decide if they want worse working conditions. Note that I don't completely agree with your statements, but assuming they're true, my question still stands.

Because by the time you find out whether a particular company's vetting was good enough, it's far too late. It's a lemon market, and regulation is the standard, economist-approved solution to those.

Re: Uber loses licence to operate in London, will still operate while appealing

#445

Post by eggy »

PaulRobinson wrote: post #399
eggy wrote: post #247

If the concern over rider safety was that somebody could pose as an Uber driver and update a photo to make it work, why are black cabs not also deemed unsafe? Couldn't somebody borrow a friend's black cab, slap on a fake photo, and work the city? Maybe a stretch, and more work, but the same concern is there, no? I guess the black cabs have some powerful lobbyists in parliment? Yellow taxis in NYC were a monopoly, and…

> Couldn't somebody borrow a friend's black cab, slap on a fake photo, and work the city? There is concern that this is happened in the past and penalties are extremely severe: the owner of the original license will lose their badge and may face criminal charges. It's a bit hard to describe the taxi market in London to anybody who doesn't live here, but it's a closed shop only to the extent that if you're prepared to…

Thank you for an informative response. I had stayed in London and other areas in England back in the 80's and really found the black cabs very helpful and enjoyable. I think the training and requirements produce a good bunch of workers to serve the industry. The ubiquity of map applications from Google, Apple, and others, seems to have dropped the requirement for a driver to know the best route from experience. I am from New York, but Google Maps has gotten me to where I need to go within the time estimate while I am in Orlando, Florida, with great accuracy. It announced 'Speed Trap' and sure enough a cop pulled out and nabbed a speeder who just flew past me! These things are sometimes known by heavy drivers, but not like they are compiled and delivered by Google Maps.

I guess demeanor, dress, etiquette, and a bunch of other pleasantries are still a commodity, but then again the stereotypical NY cabbie gets their fair share of likes and dislikes from the movies and tourists too. To me, Uber and Lyft are indispensable for doing business across teh US now. I can go away with car rentals where I only need to make a few hops during a day, and I can stay somewhere without worrying about parking or hailing down a cab.

Re: Uber loses licence to operate in London, will still operate while appealing

#446

Post by lmm »

omarhaneef wrote: post #191

Something about this doesn't make sense to me. I take it for granted that the staff at Uber would do anything not to lose the license. I am sure that, for 17 months, they've been investing heavily in security systems, ID verification etc. They must have followed up on every complaint. If I were them, I would have just manually followed everything that the Cabs do till I had a technology in place. It also seems that t…

The headline tells you everything you need to know: they've lost their license, but they'll continue operating. Uber doesn't believe that the government will actually stop them, and so far they've been right.

Re: Uber loses licence to operate in London, will still operate while appealing

#447

Post by frabcus »

nerfhammer wrote: post #413
PaulRobinson wrote: post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Couldn't somebody borrow a friend's black cab, slap on a fake photo, and work the city? There is concern that this is happened in the past and penalties are extremely severe: the owner of the original license will lose their badge and may face criminal charges. It's a bit hard to describe the taxi market in London to anybody who doesn't live here, but it's a closed shop only to the extent that if you're prepared to…

> VC-subsidised This boogeyman trope needs to die. Uber is not funded by VCs anymore.

Technically, it seems to be "post-IPO equity" subsidised, with a $500 million investment from PayPal in April.

https://www.crunchbase.com/funding_round/uber-post-ipo-equit...

Re: Uber loses licence to operate in London, will still operate while appealing

#448

Post by lmm »

BurningFrog wrote: post #270
Crashbat wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except then you can't eat? It's not that it's not profitable, it's that the earnings drivers make are meager compared to what people need to sustain themselves. You make it sound like anybody who's on minimum wage just doesn't realise that they could go elsewhere for higher wages!

Always fascinated by the idea that paying someone $8/h is a crime, but paying them $0/h is perfectly fine. Such enormous cognitive dissonance. We humans are so good at that.

Unemployed people have various forms of legal protection in place that "underemployed" people don't. You can claim unemployment because you were fired, but not because your hours were cut.

Re: Uber loses licence to operate in London, will still operate while appealing

#449

Post by lmm »

ekianjo wrote: post #271
criddell wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since drivers can't set their own rates, I've always felt the government should regulate the split. Uber's portion should be capped at something like 5%. The marginal cost for them to connect a driver to a rider is close to 0 so even 5% feels very generous.

That's not the job of the government to regulate margins of businesses. If you go by that way, then you might as well regulate every margin of every app store?

The government should (and does) regulate the margins of natural monopolies like utilities where a free market can't operate effectively.

Re: Uber loses licence to operate in London, will still operate while appealing

#450

Post by rchaud »

aguyfromnb wrote: post #301
Consultant32452 wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like Uber provides valuable service to the poor who are more likely to work night shift and also less likely to be able to afford the premium for the nicer black cab service during the day.

> Sounds like Uber provides valuable service to the poor who are more likely to work night shift On what planet are "the poor" commuting back and forth to work via Uber?

The same planet where Uber is referred to as a "ride-sharing platform", but literally operates as a centrally administered taxi service.
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