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Elizabeth Warren Proposes Breaking Up Tech Giants Like Amazon

nytimes.com

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Re: Elizabeth Warren Proposes Breaking Up Tech Giants Like Amazon

#441

Post by 908087 »

thr_w wrote: post #131
treis wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that wildly overstates the influence these companies have. Amazon is trivial to avoid. Just don't shop there or at Whole Foods. Facebook is a bit trickier because you might be forced there by a social group and they have a huge web of trackers. Google is really the issue. They are dominant in search, browser, and maps, and they're half the mobile duopoly. It's very difficult to avoid using their products enti…

Not a huge disagreement here, but I think Facebook is completely trivial to avoid, while Amazon is much less so. I couldn't care less about Facebook. Yet, while I certainly could live without Amazon (or Whole Foods), their service is very nice and WF has things I can't buy at other grocery stores around me.

Good luck avoiding having your data collected by facebook via third parties, and good luck avoiding the effects it has on the society you live in.

Re: Elizabeth Warren Proposes Breaking Up Tech Giants Like Amazon

#442

Post by ApolloFortyNine »

luckydata wrote: post #390
psadauskas wrote: post #211

How about going after Comcast and Verizon first, the actual tech monopolies ? I already don’t use Facebook, I buy things online from places other than Amazon, and have email accounts that aren’t hosted by Google. However, all of that goes over Comcast’s network because that’s my only viable choice for Internet service. Also, while FAANG occasionally do things I don’t approve of, they don’t actively lobby congress for…

because Google/Amazon/Facebook are more consequential to our life and society. But I agree cable companies should also be looked at. TBH there's no hope competition will ever be a thing where heavy infrastructure spending is at play, those companies should be made public and the infrastructure provided for businesses by the government through fees, just like roads and other basic infra.

You can replace Google/Amazon/Facebook in seconds.

You can not change your cable provider in a large number of areas, and even many of the ones that you can, you only have 2 choices between Comcast/Verizon/ATT/Centurylink.

And, miraculously, as soon as a competitor arrives, you see prices drop and speeds increase. It happened in just about every area Google fiber rolled out to.

Comcast also charge $10 for an extra 50GB of data after hitting the cap, and Comcast just happens to own a major network (which if you stream your tv shows, you won't be watching). It just seems incredibly clear that Comcast and other cable companies are clearly taking advantage of their monopoly status at the expense of customers, which is exactly when trust busting is supposed to come into play.

Re: Elizabeth Warren Proposes Breaking Up Tech Giants Like Amazon

#443

Post by ddebernardy »

psadauskas wrote: post #211

How about going after Comcast and Verizon first, the actual tech monopolies ? I already don’t use Facebook, I buy things online from places other than Amazon, and have email accounts that aren’t hosted by Google. However, all of that goes over Comcast’s network because that’s my only viable choice for Internet service. Also, while FAANG occasionally do things I don’t approve of, they don’t actively lobby congress for…

There was a recent podcast by Chris Hayes on this topic with Kashmir Hill. It's not as easy to avoid FAANG as one would expect at first glance.

https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/how-block-big-tech-kas...

Re: Elizabeth Warren Proposes Breaking Up Tech Giants Like Amazon

#444

Post by diminoten »

giggles_giggles wrote: post #373
psadauskas wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right, I should have checked the facts before speculating on which company spent more on lobbying. However, the things they are lobbying for/against also matter. As a recent example, Net Neutrality involved massive amounts of lobbing and had very clear "pro-consumer" and "anti-consumer" sides. From https://www.opensecrets.org/news/issues/net_neutrality/ > Not only was Google the pro-net neutrality organization…

>As a recent example, Net Neutrality involved massive amounts of lobbing and had very clear "pro-consumer" and "anti-consumer" sides This isn't as uncontroversial of an opinion as it might appear to be in a place like HN. What you're admitting here basically is that you think Comcast should be broken up because they lobby for things you don't like, but FAANG is fine because they lobby for things you do.

It's uncontroversial to say Net Neutrality is pro-consumer on HN because we're the people who know the technical aspects of the concept; it's uncontroversial anywhere people know what it's about.

But the point is well made. We can't be breaking up companies that don't do what we want, if they're playing by the rules.

The real answer is to change the rules. Warren is running on some populist anger, and that's a dangerous thing to praise.

Re: Elizabeth Warren Proposes Breaking Up Tech Giants Like Amazon

#445

Post by 908087 »

chmielewski wrote: post #168

I choose not to use Amazon. I choose not to use Facebook. Very difficult to not interact with Google... I choose not to use Verizon... however COMCAST is TERRRIBLE and along with Verizon, they have shut down every mom-and-pop ISP and are responsible for the wholesale elimination of robust, in-place copper from the consumer and business markets. Senator Warren, please add Comcast\Verizon to this list. That would get m…

Do you somehow choose to avoid everything hosted on AWS? How do you avoid the wider societal effects of Facebook, and how do you avoid their collection of data on you via third parties?

Re: Elizabeth Warren Proposes Breaking Up Tech Giants Like Amazon

#446

Post by Rebelgecko »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #391
psadauskas wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right, I should have checked the facts before speculating on which company spent more on lobbying. However, the things they are lobbying for/against also matter. As a recent example, Net Neutrality involved massive amounts of lobbing and had very clear "pro-consumer" and "anti-consumer" sides. From https://www.opensecrets.org/news/issues/net_neutrality/ > Not only was Google the pro-net neutrality organization…

I believe net neutrality is a regulatory capture move, and gives Google and Netflix a stranglehold over the industry: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19316513 Marketing to the contrary, I believe there are good, strong justifications for against net neutrality, as a consumer and someone excited about the future of technology. Additionally, and far more importantly: Comcast is a regional monopoly. They have a lot…

How so? If I don't like my internet provider, my only other option is dialup. If I don't like Google, there's multiple alternatives for all of their services that I use

Re: Elizabeth Warren Proposes Breaking Up Tech Giants Like Amazon

#448

Post by mal10c »

prickledpear wrote: post #426
mal10c wrote: post #401

I ran across two quotes by Warren that caught my attention: > "unwind tech mergers that illegally undermine competition" > "I want a government that makes sure everybody — even the biggest and most powerful companies in America — plays by the rules" The word "illegally" in the first quote really set off my alarm bells. What have large companies like Amazon, Google, FB, etc. done that is considered illegal in this reg…

It's a little hard to tell if you're asking "are there laws against monopolies?" or "should there be laws against monopolies?". The answer to the first is a certain yes. There are laws against businesses forming monopolies in the United States. You can read up on the Sherman and Clayton antitrust acts from the 1890s and 1910s to start with. There is also considerable case law stemming from this legislation. The answe…

Those are great points. I didn't break my main thoughts into those two smaller thoughts. And I also appreciate this comment:

> It's also not generally agreed upon that economic efficiency should be the goal of government

I think you managed to sum up my thoughts much better than I did.

Re: Elizabeth Warren Proposes Breaking Up Tech Giants Like Amazon

#449

Post by 908087 »

SCAQTony wrote: post #186

Of the three I would say Facebook is the most destructive. I don't see articles on Live Science or Science Daily decrying the mental health effects of Amazon or Google, just unfair monopoly implications at Bloomberg and other business sites.

Youtube is Google.
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