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Lime and Bird are growing rapidly

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Re: Lime and Bird are growing rapidly

#441

Post by mnx »

NatW wrote: post #428
lingzb wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but there's the same risk with conventional bikes on streets today. And cities like San Francisco agree - they are making it legal for adults to ride electric scooters _without_ helmets so that it matches regulation around bicycle helmets: https://la.curbed.com/2018/9/21/17884220/bird-lime-scooters-...

> the same risk with conventional bikes I think the scooters are riskier in some ways. My experience is with bikes you can easily take one hand off the bike to signal a turn - what your traffic intention is. But with the scooters, it's not really possible to take your hands off the handlebars (you lose control!), and there is currently no blinker control to indicate your traffic intention. I wanted to take a left-tur…

Yes! This is a major issue even in moderate traffic. They could probably adapt the under-side lights to function as turn signals. The scooters are just too narrow to drive one-handed.

Re: Lime and Bird are growing rapidly

#443

Post by kaybe »

stef25 wrote: post #407
tuxxy wrote: post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> old grumps I'm 22 and privacy-conscious. I also love tech, but I really enjoy my personal privacy and knowing that I'm not being surveiled all the time. I am also a FSF supporter and try to run libre code wherever possible. Convince me: why should I give up my privacy to use products that will inevitably treat my data irresponsibly?

Define irresponsibly. Your plaintext passwords, ID scans and physical address getting leaked is one thing. Using your basic demographic data for advertising is something else. An obvious solution is just to use bogus data: name, email, dob, address, burner phone. Only thing you can't fake is your credit card but I'm sure a lot of companies do actually accept payments where the name of the card differs from the name o…

It's called cash. There's a reason not everyone wants to get rid of it.

Re: Lime and Bird are growing rapidly

#444

Post by mbel »

ZoomZoomZoom wrote: post #435
criagsbkbk wrote: post #433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personal swipes aren't allowed here. FYI

This is not a personal swipe, just a sarcastic remark on a tactless and judgemental comment.

I would say it's the other way around. You made a tactless and judgemental comment on a sarcastic remark.

Re: Lime and Bird are growing rapidly

#445

Post by kaybe »

icebraining wrote: post #419
stuart78 wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cars park in designated spots on streets, they are (generally) not randomly dropped onto sidewalks and parks. The issue for me is the co-opting of public space for private enterprise in the least considerate way possible. People leave these scooters like litter in parks, sidewalks, and lakes. You could object that this is an overly precious perspective, but I would counter that similar startups (ZipCar most notably)…

Cars had to "disrupt" their way into getting a bunch of infrastructure built for them too; they weren't sitting in factories until streets were filled with parking spaces and traffic signs.

One of the strategies was to have officials take them and then be annoyed enough to change legislation. (eg there was a 3 km/h speed limit for the first car, then they went to fetch some officials from the train station with it. The legislation was changed very fast after that.)

Re: Lime and Bird are growing rapidly

#446

Post by kaybe »

jfz wrote: post #112
scelerat wrote: post #105

In West Oakland I see many people using the Ford Bikes, but yet even more people using the Lime scooters. Kids, adults, techies, non-techies. I think they look kind of dorky, and some end up on the sidewalk and dumped in Lake Merritt. On the other hand, it appears that people are using these scooters a lot, possibly instead of driving. That seems like a positive outcome to me.

I suspect that the bikes and scooters will appear less dorky over time, as they get normalized. Some people say the bikes "look pretty cool"[1]. [1] https://www.theverge.com/2018/9/23/17882996/teens-electric-s...

I remember when people were laughed at for having a pull-behind luggage. Now it's normal.

Re: Lime and Bird are growing rapidly

#447

Post by kaybe »

the_clarence wrote: post #388
scelerat wrote: post #105

In West Oakland I see many people using the Ford Bikes, but yet even more people using the Lime scooters. Kids, adults, techies, non-techies. I think they look kind of dorky, and some end up on the sidewalk and dumped in Lake Merritt. On the other hand, it appears that people are using these scooters a lot, possibly instead of driving. That seems like a positive outcome to me.

I don’t understand why people say that they look dorky. Didn’t you have this scooter trend like 20 years ago in the US? We sure had that in Europe.

Currently there is a huge trend at the Chaos Communication Congress because the new buildings are so big and the distances far. Last year many places were actually sold out. It's even better if you outfit it with some LEDs and stuff! (So if anyone is going this year - wheels recommended.)

Re: Lime and Bird are growing rapidly

#448

Post by kaybe »

blhack wrote: post #267
IshKebab wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At that point why not just buy a scooter?

Because then you have to worry about it getting stolen, and you have to remember to charge it. Part of the magic of the birds is that when you're done, you just get off of it and park. 0 anxiety about somebody stealing it.

Are they too big to just fold and store under your desk or whatever? They don't look that big in the pictures.

Re: Lime and Bird are growing rapidly

#449

Post by CalRobert »

stuart78 wrote: post #179
bb2018 wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I could not be more upset that people who have stated progressive goals such as cutting down on fuel and providing cheap public transportation are against these. They are an absolutely great alternative that makes these goals possible without having to completely overhaul city designs. The only externality really seems to be they are parked in random places - but I don't see how that is any different than cars parked…

Cars park in designated spots on streets, they are (generally) not randomly dropped onto sidewalks and parks. The issue for me is the co-opting of public space for private enterprise in the least considerate way possible. People leave these scooters like litter in parks, sidewalks, and lakes. You could object that this is an overly precious perspective, but I would counter that similar startups (ZipCar most notably)…

Cars stole that space from people walking, horses, carts, bicycles, donkeys, livestock, etc.

For thousands of years it was normal for children to play in the street, for people to stop and converse, etc.

Then drivers turned up, said "move or I will kill you", and weirdly we decided the streets were for cars. It grates when people say that people walking have any less right to stand in the middle of the street because they're not wearing a car.

This was the result of a concerted PR campaign. https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2012/04/invention-jay...

Do the people look out of place here? http://static.libsyn.com/p/assets/c/c/3/a/cc3a56fafeaa6119/S...

Perhaps we should take some space from cars (really, from people who happen to be in cars) and give it back to people.

Re: Lime and Bird are growing rapidly

#450

Post by CalRobert »

bradlys wrote: post #136
briandear wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Helmets are important (I always wear one,) however, government ought not force people to wear them. Freedom still should matter. Grown adults should be able to make their own decisions. I support helmet laws for the under 18 crowd, but for grown adults? Too much nanny state for my liking.

One reason people might disagree is that you're pushing the externality of your own safety onto others. An example of an externality: those who don't wear helmets and crash are much more likely to have a brain injury (or death). This means that we all have to pay for your care now. In death (lack of taxes) or in financial damage. And in some cases like safety standards, people will also argue for emotional safety as…

Which is why car drivers should wear helmets. Head trauma happens to people inside cars too.
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