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My somewhat complete salary history as a software engineer

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Re: My somewhat complete salary history as a software engineer

#441

Post by roel_v »

jacknews wrote: post #396
shubb wrote: post #341

I feel like something went a bit wierd with my wages compared so some people here. Not level - that's about geography and company and other factors. But in progression. I have never asked for or recieved a pay rise, although I have been offered retention money. That said, it might just be the industry, colleagues talked about similar numbers. 2008 - £24k - Junior Electronic Engineer (C++/embeded)- Large engineering c…

Even 8 years ago, £20k ($26k ish) seems extremely low for a developer in a "rich" western nation. Is embedded development really that poorly paid? I'm quite interested in it myself, but not for that kind of money.

"Is embedded development really that poorly paid?"

At least in Belgium and the Netherlands it is, yes. I've interviewed a few times for roles like that, and they were always poorly paid and very depressing looking (like one guy beaming 'this will be your workspace!', pointing to an ancient pc on the edge of a lab table with a chair with holes in it. I think since the electronics guys didn't have chairs, that was the comfy position in the company?)

Re: My somewhat complete salary history as a software engineer

#442

Post by bambamb »

hudon wrote: post #433
BowBun wrote: post #418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the risk of opening a can of worms, I think the author is right and you are contributing to the systemic issue by trying to deflect their mention of privilege. If you are a white male, you have privilege. I don't think OP would ever say that's the only factor to their success, but recognizing privilege and where you have taken advantage of it in life is healthy progress towards equality. http://psycnet.apa.org/rec…

Anecdotal but at my previous employer, women and some racial minorities were given a higher score during interviews because of their gender or race (this was explicit) and white men were de-prioritized. It was actually a disadvantage to be white.

Nothing anecdotal about that. This type of thing is pervasive in all major organizations in the US (and many other Western countries). It is textbook-definition systemic racism, in that it is systematized. There is literally a system in place to discriminate against white men (and often asian men too). And they justify this because of bold, sweeping, unsupported assumptions made about "white privilege" like the one made by the author of this article.

Re: My somewhat complete salary history as a software engineer

#443

Post by closeparen »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #150
closeparen wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really - the same tax dollars buy less service and infrastructure when the workers and suppliers also need to function in high CoL areas. A $2.5bn mile of subway in New York isn't a priori better than a $600bn mile of subway in Seattle. A $59k entry level teacher in San Francisco isn't a priori better than a $33k entry level teacher in Wisconsin.

$600bn for a mile of subway in Seattle is absolutely nuts, I hoe that is a typo.

Million, sorry.

Re: My somewhat complete salary history as a software engineer

#444

Post by readingnews »

I think the author is in fact unhumble bragging. I have been in IT for 26 years, have managed IT teams, every boss I have had would hire me back. I live in a mid sized city. I don't make close to half those numbers. I have no idea how these people get these crazy high salary jobs.

Re: My somewhat complete salary history as a software engineer

#445

Post by iopuy »

innomansland wrote: post #126

using my throwaway account but have some comment history on my career (i did a Ask HN post on pivoting my "career" last year). I saw someone from Sydney posting their history so I thought I add my perspective from another Australian lurker: Date - Company ID | Starting Salary | Percentage Increase Role | Role 2005 - Company A | $20/hour | 100%! :) | Part Time Tester 2007 - Company B | $48,000 annual | 20.0% | Graduat…

2014 - same locale or moved to a different cost of living? Congrats, that's a very nice progression.

Re: My somewhat complete salary history as a software engineer

#446

Post by throwaway2016a »

acconrad wrote: post #387

I'm surprised no one has mentioned that Nick Zakas is an acclaimed author in the JavaScript world. He probably makes a decent amount more from speaking and conferences, but it's still surprising to me that in spite of having multiple books under his belt that was all he was making considering how much of a value add it is just to have his name for whatever company he was working for.

> He probably makes a decent amount more from speaking and conferences

As someone who speaks at conferences regularly with a resume similar to his, I can tell you this probably not true. Tech conferences don't usually pay well if at all. Possibly for a keynote speaker but even then not much.

Most conferences I've spoken at don't even pay for you travel and hotel, never mind additional amounts on top of that. They expect your employer to pay for travel and hotel just as they would if you were a regular attendee.

I will say that 100% of conferences have had a free pass that gets you into all the talks and usually a catered lunch, snacks, and coffee in the "speaker lounge".

Re: My somewhat complete salary history as a software engineer

#447

Post by pjc50 »

ponyous wrote: post #371
osrec wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Even if it is a good developer, I don't believe the qualities of senior developer are being acquired so quickly. So here's where I have my issue. Why can't someone acquire those qualities quickly? Why should your belief be factored in when gauging someone's expertise? I say, let's just look at their abilities and then decide. You may be surprised at how quickly some people pick up certain skills! > Most of the peop…

> Why can't someone acquire those qualities quickly? Because there is no time to do the full cycle from start to release more than twice in 2 years. Usually a project that will give you decent insights takes some time to build. Usually at least 6 months and then several months to see what you did wrong. So if you did this cycle once, you are not aware of how you screwed it up and if other methods would yield better r…

Yes, this is a bit of a micro version of the "should people developing software be allowed to call themselves engineers": some people want a formalised system which guarantees that people have passed certain tests and have a certain level of experience, other people observe that many of our heroes and CEOs are bright autodidacts. Is it a good idea to pull up the ladder? And besides, technology shifts and there are plenty of people working on technologies that weren't invented at the time they graduated. Bill Gates dropped out of Harvard, Andy Grove was a refugee who would have great difficulty getting into 21st century America, etc.

I agree that a lot of vital expertise comes from mistaken attempts and the need to change strategies.

Re: My somewhat complete salary history as a software engineer

#448

Post by throwaway2016a »

swalsh wrote: post #389
acconrad wrote: post #387

I'm surprised no one has mentioned that Nick Zakas is an acclaimed author in the JavaScript world. He probably makes a decent amount more from speaking and conferences, but it's still surprising to me that in spite of having multiple books under his belt that was all he was making considering how much of a value add it is just to have his name for whatever company he was working for.

"considering how much of a value add, it is just to have his name for whatever company he was working for." Unless he's working for a javascript tool builder, why does his name add any extra value to the company?

I kind of see the point. To an extent.

The name adds some cache when hiring. Some of our top talent came to our company solely to work on my team. It also gets you exposure at conferences and events. A good enough recognized name will sometimes even allow you to raise more money even if they are not in management.

Re: My somewhat complete salary history as a software engineer

#449

Post by sidlls »

scarface74 wrote: post #434
dclowd9901 wrote: post #419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don’t shame people for making more money than others. The idea of this is we all see what we make. The outliers are making what we should all make.

It's not about shaming people. HN is full of West Coast FAANG SV employees who are outliers. It's easy for people to feel that their perfectly normal salaries are low.

I'm not FAANG, but I am in SV, and my salary is currently around $200k/year (give or take). That's low compared to FAANG, but it's much higher, even adjusting for COL, than most of the "perfectly normal" lower salaries in these comments. That's not good: those lower salaries should be considered abnormally low; mine should be considered on the high end of average, maybe. Most software development (where software is the product, or a critical component of the product) is a high margin endeavor. These companies can (and should) pay their development staff more.

Re: My somewhat complete salary history as a software engineer

#450

Post by Judgmentality »

bambamb wrote: post #442
hudon wrote: post #433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdotal but at my previous employer, women and some racial minorities were given a higher score during interviews because of their gender or race (this was explicit) and white men were de-prioritized. It was actually a disadvantage to be white.

Nothing anecdotal about that. This type of thing is pervasive in all major organizations in the US (and many other Western countries). It is textbook-definition systemic racism, in that it is systematized. There is literally a system in place to discriminate against white men (and often asian men too). And they justify this because of bold, sweeping, unsupported assumptions made about "white privilege" like the one m…

> Nothing anecdotal about that. This type of thing is pervasive in all major organizations in the US (and many other Western countries).

I think it is entirely anecdotal unless you can point to a treasure trove of evidence. For what it's worth, I think there is actually a lot of merit to what you're saying, despite it being unconventional. But to talk about it as though it's just a given without concrete data seems like a poor approach for a meaningful conversation.

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