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Americans Want to Believe Jobs Are the Solution to Poverty. They’re Not

nytimes.com

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Re: Americans Want to Believe Jobs Are the Solution to Poverty. They’re Not

#441

Post by YinglingLight »

rpvnwnkl wrote: post #433
dgudkov wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>you just cannot escape poverty by just working harder. This is a traditional, stereotypical belief that in order to escape poverty you have to work harder. This is old understanding of meritocracy and it's no longer valid. The new meritocracy is that you have to learn harder. And now, given all the learning resources available for free on the internet (which is also very accessible nowadays) it's probably the best t…

Does “learning” really bring you out of poverty? Or is this the same old trope with an extra step added?

Delayed gratification is the mechanism behind all steps.

Re: Americans Want to Believe Jobs Are the Solution to Poverty. They’re Not

#442

Post by mikeash »

boulos wrote: post #428

A few threads seem to believe that the minimum wage is high enough / need not be increased. I don’t actually want to argue about mechanism, but think that it’s imoortant to note that the math says our (current) minimum wage is demonstrably insufficient to remove poverty. With the Federal minimum wage currently at $7.25/hr, that’s just $15k/year at full-time. That puts many minimum wage workers below many countries’ a…

Servers still have to receive the standard minimum wage. If their tips don’t bring them up to that level, their employer has to make up the difference. Of course, not all employers follow the law, but that’s the requirement.

Re: Americans Want to Believe Jobs Are the Solution to Poverty. They’re Not

#443

Post by dzdt »

blacksoil wrote: post #141

The lady in the example is 33 has a diabetes, 3 kids to support, and presumably also have to support for her disabled mother. To make the matter even more sad she had no higher level education. I can imagine how hard and tough it is for her. But I don't think raising the minimum wage or a mandated salary increase/promotion is the real solution here. The real solutions would be to: 1. Educate parents on the importance…

What do parents who understand the importance of child education do?

(1) choose a better school district, i.e. buy or rent housing in a more expensive location -- not applicable to poor parents

(2) read with their young kids; help older kids with homework -- requires time and a good enough living situation and enough education of the parents. Encouraging reading to kids is one of the top parent-education strategies being tried. The amount of help a parent can provide is limited by their own education level and time availability.

(3) Provide a stable environment where kids have good food, space to work quietly and access to books and computers -- this can be hard to impossible for the poor!

(4) transport kids to school every day -- most families in the US are expected to transport kids to neighborhood schools. For the poor, this means walking regardless of weather. In bad weather, attendence of the poor is way down, understandably.

(5) extracurriculars -- other than in-school sports, these typically require fees, parents to drive kids places, and parental time. Not possible for many poor families.

Re: Americans Want to Believe Jobs Are the Solution to Poverty. They’re Not

#444

Post by mikeash »

blacksoil wrote: post #141

The lady in the example is 33 has a diabetes, 3 kids to support, and presumably also have to support for her disabled mother. To make the matter even more sad she had no higher level education. I can imagine how hard and tough it is for her. But I don't think raising the minimum wage or a mandated salary increase/promotion is the real solution here. The real solutions would be to: 1. Educate parents on the importance…

2.5. Educate people how not to have kids before they want to, and give them the supplies they need to make it happen.

Re: Americans Want to Believe Jobs Are the Solution to Poverty. They’re Not

#445

Post by andrewclunn »

m_fayer wrote: post #410
hhjinks wrote: post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That does not absolve her of her irresponsibility. 99% of 16-year-olds realize having a kid is a bad idea. She made her bed, and now she sleeps in it. I can empathize with her situation, but I can not empathize with anyone saying she is not herself at least partly responsible.

A modern wealthy society that allows a bad-but-understandable move by a 16 year old girl to basically wreck her entire life, is a cruel society. Also don't overlook that America is also supposed to be a country of redemption and second chances, and that we as a society derive strength from that. We foster risk-taking, and we don't throw away people who seriously screw up - but rather capitalize on the fact that those…

Here have all the freedom, but none of the consequences. We'll just tax more responsible people if you scree up. Huh... why are there suddenly so many freeloaders?

Re: Americans Want to Believe Jobs Are the Solution to Poverty. They’re Not

#447

Post by weliketocode »

Not to marginalize this, but the number of core financial tenets are very short. - spend less than you earn (2 sides of the equation here) - avoid drugs & illicit activities - avoid debt & long-term financial commitments: unpaid credit cards, mortgage, car lease, children, pets

Yes, children who are born into these problems will find it especially difficult to get themselves out of poverty.

Yes, i f you show me a single parent on minimum wage supporting multiple kids and family members, it seems guaranteed that they'll be in poverty.

However, the cause of their poverty isn't that they aren't making enough money. It's that their expense level is too high relative to their income.

Addressing poverty requires reducing the level of expenses relative to earnings. Let's start seeing both sides of that equation addressed.

Re: Americans Want to Believe Jobs Are the Solution to Poverty. They’re Not

#448

Post by candiodari »

toofy wrote: post #183
candiodari wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Furthermore those 3.5% are not divided randomly. On the lowest rung of society, they're at least 50%. The higher you go the lower the percentage, and it drops off pretty fast.

Sorry, I'm confused by your statement, are you saying "at least" 50% of the lower class are immigrants?

No, I mean when it comes to the lowest of the low jobs, like hotel maid in terribly run bad hotel or garbage man, illegal immigrants represent almost a majority.

I don't have exact figures so I'm using 50% like "about half". I suspect though that it's only about half because some of them managed to legalize themselves, and in reality in these very bad jobs there's actually even more than that.

Re: Americans Want to Believe Jobs Are the Solution to Poverty. They’re Not

#449

Post by candiodari »

oblio wrote: post #229
candiodari wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. This cannot work without forcing a whole range of products a LOT more expensive than they are. That's a feature, not a bug. But yes, the rest of society will become a LOT "poorer" (but still comfortable) for no more than a decent increase in the living standard of the working poor.

Isn't that just going to plummet the demand for strawberries, thus completely wiping out those jobs?

If this is being done across the board, that won't be a problem.

Re: Americans Want to Believe Jobs Are the Solution to Poverty. They’re Not

#450

Post by patricius »

boulos wrote: post #428

A few threads seem to believe that the minimum wage is high enough / need not be increased. I don’t actually want to argue about mechanism, but think that it’s imoortant to note that the math says our (current) minimum wage is demonstrably insufficient to remove poverty. With the Federal minimum wage currently at $7.25/hr, that’s just $15k/year at full-time. That puts many minimum wage workers below many countries’ a…

No minimum wage is able to remove poverty. Set it too low and it has no effect, since it will be below the price you are able to get on a free market. Set it too high and fewer jobs will be available, and thus less people are able to earn money to fight their poverty.
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