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Americans Own Less Stuff, and That’s Reason to Be Nervous

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Re: Americans Own Less Stuff, and That’s Reason to Be Nervous

#441

Post by nybble41 »

wsy wrote: post #374
dsfyu404ed wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm working quite hard to ensure that my children will have a far greater head start than I did. Why should I not be able to pass on the fruit of my labor? Yes I know this is going to be a controversial question. I'm genuinely interested in what people's opinions are.

It is good if the society evens this out: it should not completely take away the fruits of your labor, because then your incentive to be productive will be low. But it also should ensure that less lucky children get a good start as well, to ensure that as many children as possible become productive citizens. To do the latter, the wealthy have to give up some of their wealth.

"To do the latter, the wealthy have to give up some of their wealth."

No, this does not follow. It is perfectly possible to ensure that every child has a reasonably good start and every chance to become a productive citizen without stealing from anyone, if only the people who are specifically interested in "evening things out" give up some of their wealth for the purpose. As a bonus, the children then get to grow up in a society where theft and parasitism are not deemed normal and acceptable forms of behavior.

Re: Americans Own Less Stuff, and That’s Reason to Be Nervous

#442

Post by TulliusCicero »

kartan wrote: post #257
ryandrake wrote: post #241

I’m surprised at the criticism here and I think the critics are missing the author’s point. He’s not saying, “buy more stuff you don’t need” or even, “possess more stuff.” He’s saying, “you ought to own the stuff you possess.” Which I didn’t think was a controversial opinion but I guess I stand corrected. I might be an outlier. I make a deliberate effort to own instead of rent. My commute is enormous because I moved…

> “you ought to own the stuff you possess.” That is the base that Richard Stallman created for the open source movement. You should own your own hardware, and the only way of fulfilling that is to own the software that makes it run. And I also thought that this is common sense at least for the past generation of developers. I am not so sure how much the message has been lost, but it is not so strong as it used to be.

Why though? I'm definitely of the sort that doesn't buy into Stallman's philosophy at all. What's the practical negative impact that I ought to be feeling from engaging in commerce with the usual suspects: Google, Amazon, Facebook, Microsoft, etc.? Because to me, it just looks like the (mostly potential/future) downsides are massively outweighed by the (mostly actual/current) upsides.

Re: Americans Own Less Stuff, and That’s Reason to Be Nervous

#443

Post by cheez »

supernovae wrote: post #311
ryandrake wrote: post #241

I’m surprised at the criticism here and I think the critics are missing the author’s point. He’s not saying, “buy more stuff you don’t need” or even, “possess more stuff.” He’s saying, “you ought to own the stuff you possess.” Which I didn’t think was a controversial opinion but I guess I stand corrected. I might be an outlier. I make a deliberate effort to own instead of rent. My commute is enormous because I moved…

What is the value of "owning" something? I've owned VHS's, they're worthless I've owned houses - that I had to short sell I've owned DVD's - they're worthless I've owned Books - they're worthless What is the value of owning over just paying to enjoy access? I like spotify because i can sync music to my phone to play offline - but "owning" all this music is worthless... I had a HUGE cd collection growing up but they w…

I recently cleaned out the garage and uploaded all my old music to the cloud. I would not have been able to do so had I not owned the music to begin with. Some of those songs are simply unavailable anywhere: youtube, spotify, google music.

Re: Americans Own Less Stuff, and That’s Reason to Be Nervous

#444

Post by taurath »

lsmarigo wrote: post #390
qubex wrote: post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with this “virtual community” interpretation is that it alters both people’s perception of prevailing opinions and skews their perception of how and whether they ‘need’ to find compromises with people they actually share space with. Somebody can find a ‘community’ online with whom to share very unconventional views and come away with the perception that this unconventional view is actually widespread desp…

this is at the core of why the fabric of our society is unraveling. We're heading deeper in this direction with no signs of slowing down. Algorithms that optimize for engagement metrics amplify this. why would anyone entertain let alone engage opposing viewpoints when it's much more comfortable to just retreat to a place with common similar beliefs. Make no mistake Hn is an echo chamber as well.

Tribalism has been a thing as long as human history has existed and 2 groups of apes both wanted the same banana tree. We have many ways of resolving inter-tribal conflicts, but some just aren't well translated to the internet - primarily because of the consequence free nature of throwing rocks at other tribes. This is changing though - people are moving to more, not less, moderated spaces and communities online. Anonymity only works when there are moderators.

People want to be in a place with common similar beliefs - this isn't a bad thing, its human nature. Its far safer to be around people you know don't like to eat people like you.

The main argument seems to be that because we're not having forced arguments and considerations in meatspace, mano-a-mano, we're not challenged enough. I'd argue we're extremely challenged nowadays, but most of the difficulty is in finding how to deal with the new stage upon with the game is set. Its like arguing that we've lost the ability to form up a cavalry line because of the airplane. You're right in a way, but its irrelevant. The game is changing, and everyone is scrambling to figure out what the new meta is.

Re: Americans Own Less Stuff, and That’s Reason to Be Nervous

#445

Post by jumelles »

owly wrote: post #424

Before Amazon Kindle, Netflix, Spotify, etc; I always was puzzled by people’s need to own things. Why? I used, and still do, this thing called... The Library! Why pile up stacks of books requiring many bookshelves when you can borrow anything your heart desires. Libraries are better than Amazon or Netflix actually. There have been several instances when I’ve borrowed European TV series which are not easily available…

I too adore libraries, but not everyone has access to one, much less a library with a large collection.

Re: Americans Own Less Stuff, and That’s Reason to Be Nervous

#446

Post by NathanCH »

qiqing wrote: post #211

First point: Excerpt: "The great American teenage dream used to be to own your own car. That is dwindling in favor of urban living, greater reliance on mass transit, cycling, walking and, of course, ride-sharing services such as Uber and Lyft." The teenage dream is not to own the car but to get to where they want to go, e.g., autonomy to see their friends, go to activities. When the consumer says they want a quarter…

It was the teenage dream not long ago. Getting a cellphone then getting a car were life goals in high school.

Re: Americans Own Less Stuff, and That’s Reason to Be Nervous

#447

Post by jumelles »

jonknee wrote: post #145
magduf wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why on earth would you pay $ per month to have access to music you like, when you can just have it in MP3/Ogg form, stored on multiple devices (PC, phone, backup HD) and be able to listen to it at any time you want for free?

From my point of view, why on Earth would you bother to have music in MP3/Ogg form where you have to manage it and plan what you want to listen to? Spotify is a paradigm shift for music consumption and I would never want to go back to collecting manually.

Some of us want access to music that's not on Spotify.

Re: Americans Own Less Stuff, and That’s Reason to Be Nervous

#448

Post by taurath »

bloaf wrote: post #425
Kalium wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally, I view this as a distinct upgrade. Instead of being coerced into lots of interaction with people I may have nothing in common with except vague geographical proximity, I have the option of interacting with people who actually share my interests or concerns or hobbies. To me, this isn't isolated loners. It's the first real community I've ever known. The first one I've ever actually felt like I was a part o…

The issue is that the forced interactions via geographical proximity are a kind of moderating force. Communities built around what they love are usually good, but what if what you love is terrible? https://imgur.com/GripW3M

> Communities built around what they love are usually good, but what if what you love is terrible?

We have the law to regulate what is acceptable or unacceptable - almost all laws are there to regulate person-to-person interactions. If what you love requires murdering someone, we already call that out. If what you love involves playing "I Will Survive" with a kazoo, we don't call you out unless you have a very loud kazoo and people are trying to sleep.

Laws and social pressure are also a moderating force. Forcing 2 people that are very opposed to have a forced interaction about the things they are opposed on probably results in quite a few bar fights - more often than not though they leave.

If the lack of general empathy and over-demonization of the "other" is a problem, well, try being a person of color in the 50s or before. If anything interactions have gotten better, except for those who need to have everyone look and act like them in order to function.

Re: Americans Own Less Stuff, and That’s Reason to Be Nervous

#449

Post by phkahler »

Kalium wrote: post #331
qubex wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I might add that Silicon Valley et al has not simply cleverly redefined the meaning of ’sharing’ to cover their rental practices, but even the meaning of community has been totally warped out of shape. A community used to be a group of geographically proximate people whose collective survival depended on getting over their sometimes conflicting mutual interests and opinions in order to survive; now we use the term ’c…

Personally, I view this as a distinct upgrade. Instead of being coerced into lots of interaction with people I may have nothing in common with except vague geographical proximity, I have the option of interacting with people who actually share my interests or concerns or hobbies. To me, this isn't isolated loners. It's the first real community I've ever known. The first one I've ever actually felt like I was a part o…

One problem with virtual communities is that they can't help you with local real world problems.

Re: Americans Own Less Stuff, and That’s Reason to Be Nervous

#450

Post by plaidfuji »

I wanted to watch Fellowship of the Ring recently. Would've been happy renting it, but the cheapest streaming option available to me was to "buy" it from Amazon for $10. This infuriated me so much that it almost drove me back to piracy, but I eventually caved and paid the $10. It's LOTR, of course I'll want to watch it again.

I immediately felt a deep shame, like I was the biggest sucker on the planet. But I thought to myself, what was the alternative? Buy the friggin BluRay? I don't want a pile of plastic boxes like it's the 00s and I don't have a player anyway. I just want THE FILE . IN FULL HD. Not the right to stream the file from Amazon's servers when I happen to have a good connection and a device with their App. Just the video file please. This article is spot on.

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