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US cell carriers are selling access to real-time phone location data

zdnet.com

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Re: US cell carriers are selling access to real-time phone location data

#441

Post by rosser »

fixermark wrote: post #293
drb91 wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any source for this claim?

The general public and repeatedly-reported-upon understanding of how data collection can be leveraged to find unexpected insights not obvious from the data, coupled with the Snowden leaks, coupled with the ever-increasing user count for cellphones, Facebook, Twitter, and the Internet in general. If people were deeply individually concerned about the risks vs. rewards of these technologies, they'd stop using them. Tha…

Tu quoque.

See also: "Ayn Rand collected Social Security benefits." (And I abhor her oeuvre and "movement".)

Re: US cell carriers are selling access to real-time phone location data

#442

Post by striking »

Illniyar wrote: post #264
dude123456 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

some of crapware can be avoided by using custom ROMs, but not all of it. For example: Qualcomm IZat location services and other location-based trustzone applets remain running even on custom ROMs.

How is it sending the data though? if it's using mobile plans, wouldn't it be noticeable on the data usage plan? (or is it that manufacturers have agreements with carriers to not charge for it?)

> IZat location technologies use a network of cloud-based assistance servers that provide industry-leading location performance for any mobile device, on any network, in any environment.

https://www.qualcomm.com/products/izat

Re: US cell carriers are selling access to real-time phone location data

#443

Post by rosser »

fixermark wrote: post #413
jadedhacker wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) Users get no benefit from information resale. 2) COINTELPRO

Keep in mind: most users are not part of a domestic political organization targeted by the FBI, so again, when the rubber hits the road, they'd rather not be inconvenienced for a risk that applies to other people. They don't care about COINTELPRO (disregarding, of course, the percentage of the population that actually thinks the FBI digging into "subversive" groups is part of its job). Users get no benefit from the i…

A potential victim's ignorance of their risk doesn't mean they aren't at risk.

Because I'm not specifically aware there's a cross-town bus with my name on it, I'm somehow not about to get pancaked?

Re: US cell carriers are selling access to real-time phone location data

#444

Post by striking »

voodootrucker wrote: post #404
droopybuns wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does one determine which tower to route an incoming call through, in your model? How could roaming work? Spoiler: I don’t think doing what you are describing is feasible.

I can't find a link, but this problem was foreseen and solved by Robert Morris Jr. He wrote a paper on how users could register their location with a 3rd party using a hash of their IP address. When someone wanted to call them, they would contact that 3rd party for the location then route to the cell. The cell knew someone was there, it just didn't know who. And each 3rd party only had info on a few users, and no cho…

Couldn't you build a lookup table that reverses hashes back into their IP addresses? It might not be worth it for IPv6, but it would probably work for IPv4.

Re: US cell carriers are selling access to real-time phone location data

#445

Post by yosito »

mLuby wrote: post #248
yosito wrote: post #39

Has anyone suggested a practical way that people can avoid being tracked? (Aside from Airplane Mode or keeping your phone in a Faraday Cage)

I see a lot of suggestions about reducing or shutting off your signals, but what about boosting them in certain directions? As far as I understand cell tower triangulation, having a stronger signal in one direction might offset your calculated position in that direction. I wouldn't expect that to decrease connectivity, just require special equipment and more battery life.

Interesting concept, although I don't even want my general vicinity to be tracked or shared without my consent.

Re: US cell carriers are selling access to real-time phone location data

#447

Post by godelski »

mickael-kerjean wrote: post #257
random6547545 wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hopefully this shows people how deep it is.

If all that is claim in here isn't conspiracy, how can it stay a secret? Isn't it the reason wikileaks was created in the first place?

I think the issue is that most people end up just thinking "so what? What can they do with it?" and only think "I'm not doing anything wrong" (hate that phrase and origin). The consequences of this type of thing may be apparent to tech people, but not most of the public.

Re: US cell carriers are selling access to real-time phone location data

#448

Post by everdrive »

gruez wrote: post #86
dude123456 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

some of crapware can be avoided by using custom ROMs, but not all of it. For example: Qualcomm IZat location services and other location-based trustzone applets remain running even on custom ROMs.

>Qualcomm IZat location services did a quick check, it's not on my phone (SD 820 SoC). >other location-based trustzone applets remain running even on custom ROMs. I have no doubt some proprietary blobs still remain on custom ROMs, but do those actually send back location data to the OEM?

It uses these domains:

http://xtrapath1.izatcloud.net

http://xtrapath2.izatcloud.net

http://xtrapath3.izatcloud.net

I'm not sure what part of the OS is sending it, but it's definitely happening (and is block-able!)

Re: US cell carriers are selling access to real-time phone location data

#449

Post by pacala »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #282
pacala wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spoiler. The utility of the live call is overstated. Most of the people I interact via a phone vastly prefer async SMS over sync voice calls. We can do SMS via polling, the network doesn't need to push anything to us.

People text so much because there is an expectation the other person is going to respond pretty quickly. There is definitely value derived from having people accessible all the time, and I doubt a service would sell if people weren't.

Poll every X seconds if the last message was is no older than Y minutes. Poll every Z minutes otherwise.

Re: US cell carriers are selling access to real-time phone location data

#450

Post by godelski »

Alupis wrote: post #237
mLuby wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not if precautions are taken, and even if someone did, such a patriotic disclosure (if done responsibly a la Snowden) would put that person is very esteemed company.

Yes, but Snowden is currently living in exile, and there's no end to that in sight. Few have the stomach for that sort of thing...

That's more because he released government secrets, not corporate. If the gov wasn't after him I'm pretty sure quite a few big companies would try to hire him.
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