Earlier quoted context omitted.
The driver was required to remain alert.
the car should stop itself to the emergency lane then when user disengagement is detected.
How is this, or can be, detected?
Tesla issues strongest statement yet blaming driver for deadly crash
441–450 of 850 posts
Re: Tesla issues strongest statement yet blaming driver for deadly crash
#442Earlier quoted context omitted.
>t's a tool to help attentive drivers avoid accidents that might have otherwise occurred. This needs far more discussion. I just don't buy it. I don't believe that you can have a car engaged in auto-drive mode and remain attentive. I think our psychology won't allow it. When driving, I find that I must be engaged and on long trips I don't even enable cruise control because taking the accelerator input away from me is…
Your belief is meaningless, we have hard data that shows a net benefit to these systems. It's not a question of zero deaths, it's a question of reducing the number which means you need to look beyond individual events. Remember the ~90 people who died yesterday from a US car accident without making the news are far more important than a few individuals.
Your belief is meaningless, we have hard data that shows a net benefit to these systems.
What do you know that the rest of us don't? The ones statistics I've seen on anyone's self-driving cars so far would barely support a hypothesis that they are as capable as an average driver in an average car while operating under highly favourable conditions.
Re: Tesla issues strongest statement yet blaming driver for deadly crash
#443Earlier quoted context omitted.
> You are reading into that text more than you should. The page's title is "Autopilot | Tesla". It is the first result for "tesla autopilot" in search results. And "autopilot" appears 9 times on the page. So if that's not an intentional attempt to mislead consumers into conflating Autopilot with "full self-driving", then what would such an attempt look like, hypothetically?
Is it crazy to hold a driver to a higher standard than simply Googling "Tesla autopilot" and only reading the first paragraph of the first result? If you read that entire page, the difference between autopilot and full self-driving is clear. If you read the car's manual, the difference is clear. If you look at the configurator for the car, the difference is clear when you have to pay $3,000 extra for full self-drivin…
Is it crazy to ask a car-making company to create 2 separate webpages when describing completely different systems?
Re: Tesla issues strongest statement yet blaming driver for deadly crash
#444Earlier quoted context omitted.
>t's a tool to help attentive drivers avoid accidents that might have otherwise occurred. This needs far more discussion. I just don't buy it. I don't believe that you can have a car engaged in auto-drive mode and remain attentive. I think our psychology won't allow it. When driving, I find that I must be engaged and on long trips I don't even enable cruise control because taking the accelerator input away from me is…
I don't buy this either nor should we it's not how the feature is marketed. "The system is designed to be able to conduct short and long distance trips with no action required by the person in the driver’s seat." The result of this statement and the functionality that matches it is it creates a re-enforced false sense of security. Does it matter whether the driver of the model X whose auto pilot drove straight into a…
There is a solution for this - if the driver shows any type of pattern of not using the feature safely, disable the feature. Autopilot and comparable functionality from other vehicles should be considered privileges that can be revoked.
Re: Tesla issues strongest statement yet blaming driver for deadly crash
#445Earlier quoted context omitted.
>People invariably let down their guard and go "hey, this works" and promptly stop paying attention because there's nothing for them to do. This is not specific to Tesla. Trivial example: A coworker has a car that has blind spot detection. She knows the manufacturer says "you should still check, it is not 100% accurate". And she admitted that despite knowing this, she does not check her blind spots and relies solely…
I very much agree with your opinion. Systems which take over most but not all responsibility seem to lull us humans into a false sense of security/reliability. The psychological aspect of this is actually quite intriguing, but it's also a very dangerous phenomena. I don't know anything about your wife, but that does sound perhaps a touch condescending. Besides that I think you make a very good point, one that many pe…
>I don't know anything about your wife, but that does sound perhaps a touch condescending.
That's probably because you don't know anything about my wife :-)
This isn't about my wife. I would never recommend anyone to learn CC on this type of system. They should learn CC on a regular car, and once they're comfortable with that, switch to something like this. You simply have to be more alert for a "safe" CC than a regular one.
Re: Tesla issues strongest statement yet blaming driver for deadly crash
#446Earlier quoted context omitted.
I have to preface my post to say that I think developing self-driving automobiles is so important that it's worth the implied cost of potentially tens of thousands of lives in order to perfect the technology, because that's what people do; make sacrifices to improve the world we live in so that future generations don't have to know the same problem. But I think you're right. I think the "best" way to move forward unt…
People love their cars too much. Cars should just be phased out in favor of mass transit everywhere. Yes, you can live without the convenience of your car. No really, you can. Now think about how you would enable that to happen. What local politicians are you willing to write to, or support, in order to enable a better mass transit option for you? And how would you enable more people to support those local politician…
not everyone lives (or can live) in a city.
Re: Tesla issues strongest statement yet blaming driver for deadly crash
#447> "Tesla is extremely clear that Autopilot requires the driver to be alert and have hands on the wheel."
I am a Tesla fan, and although I previously didn't understand the criticism for the name, I now see some negatives of a name like "autopilot". IMO it implies non-intervention (and yes I know Tesla warns about this etc), but at the current stage of technology and regulation, maybe "autopilot" wasn't the best naming choice?
Re: Tesla issues strongest statement yet blaming driver for deadly crash
#448Earlier quoted context omitted.
Economic incentives and competition will eventually cause it to happen regardless of sentiment. First, insurance rates for manually driven cars will shoot through the roof as less risky drivers moving to self driving cars decimate that risk pool (like if gun owners were required insurance for misuse). Second, cities that go to self driving only will have a huge advantage in infrastructure utilization and costs as roa…
> Or worse, people and companies will relocate to cities with exclusive self driving car policies So people will relocate to avoid traffic? Why doesn't this happen today? Suppose San Francisco decided to not enforce self driving laws to protect small businesses and preserve community infrastructure and culture. Now suppose Phoenix (only picked because they've been progressive with self driving technology) does enforc…
Yes, people do move cities for better quality of life (e.g. their commutes suck). Companies have been known to do similar things.
Right now Phoenix is not even on the map for most of us. If they did something like this (at the right time), then it might be.
Re: Tesla issues strongest statement yet blaming driver for deadly crash
#449Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't buy this either nor should we it's not how the feature is marketed. "The system is designed to be able to conduct short and long distance trips with no action required by the person in the driver’s seat." The result of this statement and the functionality that matches it is it creates a re-enforced false sense of security. Does it matter whether the driver of the model X whose auto pilot drove straight into a…
There is a solution for this - if the driver shows any type of pattern of not using the feature safely, disable the feature. Autopilot and comparable functionality from other vehicles should be considered privileges that can be revoked.
Systems that are semi autonomous where there's some expectation of intervention work well in those scenarios, keep the car in lane markers on the highway, etc. Make sure the users hands are on the wheel but for fully autonomous even if your hands are on the wheel, how does it know your paying attention?
Re: Tesla issues strongest statement yet blaming driver for deadly crash
#450Earlier quoted context omitted.
I have to preface my post to say that I think developing self-driving automobiles is so important that it's worth the implied cost of potentially tens of thousands of lives in order to perfect the technology, because that's what people do; make sacrifices to improve the world we live in so that future generations don't have to know the same problem. But I think you're right. I think the "best" way to move forward unt…
I disagree with your initial sentiment. In my opinion, we can have self driving cars without a large human toll. I just think we need to stop trying to merge self driving cars into a road system designed for human operators. Moreover, we should not be "beta testing" our self driving cars on roads with human operators. Accidents will happen, as ML models can and do go unstable from time to time. Instead, we should loo…
How about all those martyred by prolonging our current manual driving system for the years band decades it will take to roll out separate infrastructure for vehicles no one owns because they can't drive them anywhere?
I think we need to keep the human driver in control, but have the computers learning through that constant, immediate feedback.
And get rid of misleading marketing and fatal user experience design errors.