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Google Workers Urge C.E.O. To Pull Out of Pentagon A.I. Project

nytimes.com

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Re: Google Workers Urge C.E.O. To Pull Out of Pentagon A.I. Project

#441

Post by quickthrower2 »

reitanqild wrote: post #357
chrischen wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It could be argued that the 2nd amendment was put in place to ensure a means of the citizenry to overthrow the government (as an absolute check on an unjust government). Unfortunately it's now just a vestige of an older time and the 2nd amendment only serves to protect the rights of gun hobbyists. The guns that a person are allowed to bear are nowhere near sufficient to take on the US military, and the modern arms su…

> The guns that a person are allowed to bear are nowhere near sufficient to take on the US military, I'm tired of reminding HNers about Aghanistan.

That's an away match.

Re: Google Workers Urge C.E.O. To Pull Out of Pentagon A.I. Project

#442

Post by shitgoose »

komali2 wrote: post #299
mr_spothawk wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

there's a dead post from @Ataturk who nails my arguments against your point, but doesn't do so very nicely. history should be a guid here. presuming penis-size conversation is anything more than an intentional dig by a chauvinist powermonger, probably isn't helpful here.

I don't see the dead post, though I've looked. I'm happy to hear the points.

after removing insulting remarks, ataturk's comments looks like this (which i personally agree with):

Globalism == lack of agency, the end of voting and elections.

Universal education == total indoctrination and ideological consistency of the collectivistic variety.

Universal healthcare == the end of individual choice, individual responsibility, all new extensive taxing regimes, the destruction of the individual on many levels.

Gun Control == People control. Then total domination by the state and a monopoly on the use of force. Which, by the way, has never worked out well for any citizen anywhere.

Re: Google Workers Urge C.E.O. To Pull Out of Pentagon A.I. Project

#443

Post by weirdstuff »

MikkoFinell wrote: post #372
sseth wrote: post #135

Do we really want to test a theory that we can have a repeat of the 1930s when the democracies fell far behind an autocratic regime in the arms race, and again the autocratic regimes will not win? Democracies are in retreat around the world, and I only hope we wake up before it is too late. The military-industrial complex may have become far bigger and perhaps in some ways a burden, but the world is a dangerous place…

The world is currently the least dangerous it's ever been in history, and all data and all trends point that it will be even less dangerous in the future. Sorry but you're simply wrong.

Not sure about that. Wasn't the Doomsday Clock just moved back to an all-time dangerous spot?

Re: Google Workers Urge C.E.O. To Pull Out of Pentagon A.I. Project

#444

Post by rtx »

gfo wrote: post #391
GiorgioG wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Only in the USA is it normal to think that people should have the right to kill in self defense. If that's the case, I don't want to live anywhere else. If someone breaks into my home in the middle of the night, they pose a deadly threat to my family. In what country would you not feel the same way? > Even more, many think they should be able to defend themselves from the state. Not all states are benevolent, nor a…

Why must an intruder, who may be there just to steal something and not harm others, immediately have to pay for their actions with their life? Do gun owners truly believe that they can band together and stop the entirety of the United States military anymore? The same people who are large proponents of the 2nd Amendment also seem to encourage a massive defense budget which seems backwards to me.

>Why must an intruder, who may be there just to steal something and not harm others, immediately have to pay for their actions with their life?

They have the option of wearing a bullet proof vest or use trained monkeys to do their bidding.

Re: Google Workers Urge C.E.O. To Pull Out of Pentagon A.I. Project

#445

Post by geofft »

mhneu wrote: post #100
geofft wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without defending the morality of the Hitler/Stalin/Mao governments (or of the US government), it's very much worth noting that scientific researched flourished in the USSR and technological research continues to flourish in China. A lot of discoveries in computer science had roughly simultaneous Soviet / US discovery (the Cook-Levin theorem is a good example). There are a huge number of technology companies in China…

No. The West since 1950 has done FAR MORE scientific research than the USSR did. Soviet scientists did good work and were smart. But the Western Enlightenment model -- open communication, tolerance of dissenting voices, pursuit of truth and rejection of propaganda, and funding for basic science -- was a huge shining scientific success over the past century. Its success dwarfed that of other models. (Today the biggest…

I don't know that the causal link between the West's scientific output and the West's enlightenment values is that clear. It's certainly correlated.

But the reason the US was able to do so much fundamental research in the 20th century is not (just) because the US culturally valued fundamental research - it's because the US was able to get popular support for taxing people and spending it on the war effort (both the World Wars and the Cold War) and decided that fundamental research was necessary for the war effort.

The politicians today who are cutting NASA's budget, talking about shutting down DoE, etc. aren't simply victims of Koch propaganda or disbelievers in the enlightenment - they just no longer have political cover for publicly funding research to the same extent that it was funded previously. Nobody believes that the US is at a technical disadvantage against the people we're currently at war against. They still have the political cover to fund the military itself, which continues to get large amounts of funding from political parties that generally want to lower taxes, but that base won't let them fund basic research as much as it did in the past.

Re: Google Workers Urge C.E.O. To Pull Out of Pentagon A.I. Project

#446

Post by JorgeGT »

piker wrote: post #213
jcwayne wrote: post #165

Serious question for those who agree with this petition. Which country's military would you like to see be the most technologically advanced in 20 years?

Switzerland

The Blackwater of the Middle Ages. Still providing mercenaries to guard Europe's last absolute monarch.

Re: Google Workers Urge C.E.O. To Pull Out of Pentagon A.I. Project

#447

Post by wilsonnb »

titzer wrote: post #197
nyxtom wrote: post #75

I for one would rather have a drone strike program that actually actively avoids civilian casualties as much as possible. There are certainly gray areas here as far as the use of that program from a political standpoint (whether the strikes are warranted or whether it is part of regime changes). On the other hand, by not helping the military become more efficient we also risk losing existing lives (our own and civili…

I am not able to understand because I'm stuck at "the government uses autonomous robots to kill people extra-judiciously with missiles from the sky and nobody seems to care." And you want to make the program "more efficient." This is the gulf which I cannot seem to bridge. Extra-judicial killings of "terrorists" in "bad places" using flying killer robots is just batshit insane to me. I cannot for the life of me under…

Why do you refer to them as extra-judicial killings?

Re: Google Workers Urge C.E.O. To Pull Out of Pentagon A.I. Project

#448

Post by geofft »

archgoon wrote: post #91
geofft wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without defending the morality of the Hitler/Stalin/Mao governments (or of the US government), it's very much worth noting that scientific researched flourished in the USSR and technological research continues to flourish in China. A lot of discoveries in computer science had roughly simultaneous Soviet / US discovery (the Cook-Levin theorem is a good example). There are a huge number of technology companies in China…

>> create this quite nifty Liberty bubble > worth noting that scientific researched flourished in the USSR You seem to be talking about two totally different things. The grandparent did not talk about scientific advancement. He also wasn't talking about the USSR's military, he was specifically talking about the US's. The US, you may be surprised to discover, pursued, and continues to pursue, a political agenda quite…

There was definitely a reference to scientific advancement: "As an engineer ... After all, I would not be here, and my job would not exist, and the freedom I have to do this work would not exist ... this quite nifty Liberty bubble that these few generations get to play in."

That is why I interpreted the "quite nifty Liberty bubble" as referring to the ability to participate in technical / scientific endeavors - the "freedom I have to do this work" - not about liberty in the abstract.

('criley2, if I'm misreading you, please let me know.)

Re: Google Workers Urge C.E.O. To Pull Out of Pentagon A.I. Project

#449

Post by wilsonnb »

pera wrote: post #257
nyxtom wrote: post #75

I for one would rather have a drone strike program that actually actively avoids civilian casualties as much as possible. There are certainly gray areas here as far as the use of that program from a political standpoint (whether the strikes are warranted or whether it is part of regime changes). On the other hand, by not helping the military become more efficient we also risk losing existing lives (our own and civili…

The DoD is not interested in using their budget to reduce their number of civilian "casualties". Their only intention here is to scale up their drone programs.

I'm not sure there's a definitive answer right now as to whether drone strikes or more conventional options have higher civilian casualty rates.

Re: Google Workers Urge C.E.O. To Pull Out of Pentagon A.I. Project

#450

Post by goatlover »

kiliantics wrote: post #415
downrightmike wrote: post #133

AI is needed, the sooner we can make or create it to hold consciousness the better. We're constantly changing as a species and what we are 10,000 years from now, will far more different than we are to the ancient Egyptians. The universe will go on with out us and if intelligence is rare and spaced far apart AI is really the only chance that we have to be able to communicate or even find other intelligences.

you seem to be in the wrong thread

AI all the topics.
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