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Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

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Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#441

Post by shard972 »

andybak wrote: post #436
shard972 wrote: post #401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consider that this is the majority consensus in Japan and China. Imagine going to japan and saying "guys, this workplace is far too asian, what we really need here is some more indians, africans and arabs to get this workplace into the 21st century". I think most people here could see that not going over well. Would we then think of china and japan as mostly racist? I don't really want to get into racist/racial debat…

> Would we then think of china and japan as mostly racist Actually yes. I don't think that's far-fetched by our standards. And on the whole I'm quite proud of the distance we in the West have travelled on this issue. However - the reason we're where we are is because slavery, colonialism and immigration have rather forced us to confront the issue in a way that other nations have not needed to.

Well I'm western too and from my personal experience I don't think they are racist.

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#442

Post by [deleted] »

sseveran wrote: post #426
strangeloops85 wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I don't get it either, especially the "feeling alienated" part. Does that include being feted and having a respectful discussion with your liberal friend and old colleague, Reid Hoffman, on the Stanford campus on Jan. 31 of this year, moderated by a very sympathetic Niall Ferguson? With laudatory words and praise from the President and Provost? https://news.stanford.edu/2018/02/01/cardinal-conversation-r... Look…

Mrs. Clinton won college educated voters by 9 percentage points which is not exactly a super majority. http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/11/09/behind-trump...

[deleted]

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#443

Post by hueving »

twblalock wrote: post #203
downandout wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If he can't take the heat he should stay out of the kitchen. I think that's the whole point though. The article is saying that there is too much heat simply because they express their opposing viewpoints. "Stay out of the kitchen" means "close your mouth around Silicon Valley liberals" or you'll experience backlash. While this may not be your personal experience, the article essentially says that the somewhat ironic…

> "Stay out of the kitchen" means "close your mouth around Silicon Valley liberals" or you'll experience backlash. No, it means don't expect to be able to say controversial stuff without people who disagree with you also having their say.

It's not them just 'having their say'. It's also getting de-prioritized for promotions, left out of work outings, getting fired, etc.

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#444

Post by PeterisP »

s73v3r_ wrote: post #350
manfredo wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work in the Bay Area and I have personally worked with (as in, on the same team with and working directly in cooperation. CEOs, founders, etc. are not included in this count), exactly one person who discussed their conservative views. This is in comparison to hundreds of liberals. Sure, you may be able to identify at least one person on variety of ends of the political spectrum, but I don't think anyone can sanely…

When the topic of underrepresented groups comes up regarding women and minorities, the reason given a lot is that “they’re not interested” or something along those lines. Why would that not be the same reason here?

It could be a reason, but it's a different issue - for women and ethnic minorities it's clear how many of them there are.

However, for conservatives it's an open question of whether they really are underrepresented or they seem underrepresented because they're hiding their viewpoint.

Perhaps a more useful parallel would be sexual orientation a couple decades ago, where there used to be all kinds of policies like "don't ask, don't tell" and you might have gotten an impression that your company or industry has very few gay people while in fact they're there just hiding in the closet.

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#445

Post by dcow »

wpietri wrote: post #425
dcow wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The argument here is that people like you label anything you don't agree with as "intolerant" and justify social lynching of the ideas based on your likely angry or frustrated emotional assessment. This didn't start with James, although that's one of the more popular incidents. Disagreeing with operational policies that are based on politically charged ideas that we need to correct for the inequalities in outcomes ra…

No, intolerance is a specific term of art here, not just anything lefties don't like. For example, look at the US right's decades-long pursuit of anti-GLBTQ policies. Gay people mostly just want to be left alone to live their lives. the US right wants to use the power of the state to discriminate against them. It went so far in California that Prop 8 specifically rewrote the constitution to strip the right of equal p…

You are right. My apologies if I implied this only happens on "the left". There's a lot of context in this thread so I didn't feel the need to caveat.

However, "social lynching" is not an absurd term. While everyone has a right to express their opinion and face the consequences thereof, social lynching occurs when people mob together and demand, pressure, or otherwise effectively execute physical consequences for a utterance of speech that is otherwise entirely legal and often totally unrelated to the consequences. Losing your job because a group of people found out you donated to a conservative social/political group is an example of social lynching (in this context). No, they didn't kill the person, but there is a real impact on that person's lively hood and it can often mean the death of a career. I agree that speech is not consequence free, let the assholes be shamed, but when we start to cross realms and impact people's jobs, families, lively hoods, for simply holding other opinions, something else is happening. We're beyond the realm of speech and have entered the wold of actions.

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#446

Post by pjscott »

ahakki wrote: post #371
blattimwind wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None, he answered the (presumably?) rhetorical question.

The comment was unclear whether “Respect for capitalism declined rapidly in the US after women gained the vote.” is a direct or indirect quote of Peter Thiel, or not a quote at all.

To clarify, it's an accurate summary of Thiel's views as expressed in this 2009 essay:

https://www.cato-unbound.org/2009/04/13/peter-thiel/educatio...

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#447

Post by yohui »

shard972 wrote: post #401
andybak wrote: post #386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> being against racial diversity is racist That made me stop and think. I'm trying to imagine a picture of someone who is against racial diversity but isn't remotely racist and whilst I agree there's no logical contradiction inherent in that position I do struggle to think of a realistic portrait of such an individual. I might be missing something here but can you spell out this position for me in a bit more detail?…

Consider that this is the majority consensus in Japan and China. Imagine going to japan and saying "guys, this workplace is far too asian, what we really need here is some more indians, africans and arabs to get this workplace into the 21st century". I think most people here could see that not going over well. Would we then think of china and japan as mostly racist? I don't really want to get into racist/racial debat…

China is less homogenous than you might think, and Japan has groups that face discrimination too even if the divisions are less obvious to Western eyes. And people do criticize Japan's relatively xenophobic attitudes.

More to the point, even if you were correct about their racial homogeneity that would not be a model that the United States can or should seek to emulate.

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#448

Post by webkike »

jnordwick wrote: post #376
webkike wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's highly controversial considering how split the country is on the issue. It wouldn't be controversial if say, 80% of the population voted for him. But they didn't. Half the country did, which is precisely why it is controversial.

Is saying I voted for Clinton also controversial?

Apparently

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#450

Post by kelukelugames »

berberous wrote: post #336
webkike wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great. I'm sure they all had reasons to vote for a man who said "grab them by the pussy." That doesn't make it any less of an endorsement.

95% of liberals (myself included) would have re-voted for Bill Clinton in 2000, if he was allowed to re-run, over Bush. They would have overlooked all of the shit with Monica (a 22 yo intern!) and the other women, because they would have viewed Bush as a worse choice. And I think nearly all of them do not endorse what he did.

This is why I'm glad the D's are cleaning house. Sexual assault shouldn't be partisan. F Bill Clinton. Hilary was absolutely complicit too.
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