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New law bans California employers from asking applicants their prior salary

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Re: New law bans California employers from asking applicants their prior salary

#441

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

sjg007 wrote: post #199
dogma1138 wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are plenty of employers that can't afford to pay 180k, not everyone works for Google, Amazon or Facebook. Here in London you have a lot of companies that look for people with similar experience that have huge pay ranges. A Sr. Engineer can be making anywhere from 40-45K to 110-120K a year (in general health care pays the least, fintech/finance pays the most, startups in the UK often underpay and equity is a jok…

I don't know why everyone thinks Google pays well... It was only a few years ago that they gave everyone a 10% raise across the board to address issues of underpayment. That was probably due to the Facebook threat. In addition, lest we forget, all of the big tech companies colluded to depress wages as well.

> I don't know why everyone thinks Google pays well

Because strong, senior engineers who have been at the company for a while (say at least 5-6 years) can get total comp that is in the upper six figures when everything is factored in. That's well higher than the vast majority of other employers.

Re: New law bans California employers from asking applicants their prior salary

#442

Post by thomas_howland »

Per_Bothner wrote: post #210
Chirael wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think recruiters would be covered under the "through an agent" part, especially as most/all are compensated by the employer. When asked about salary I say that I consider my previous/current employer's salary information to be proprietary & confidential information and I would be violating the agreement I signed when I joined that company to keep such information private, by revealing it. I basically present it as…

"When asked about salary I say that I consider my previous/current employer's salary information to be proprietary & confidential information and I would be violating the agreement I signed when I joined that company to keep such information private, by revealing it." Such agreements are not allowed in California. It would be illegal and unethical for a company to ask you to sign it.

Source? Noncompetes are disallowed in CA, and federal (and probably state) law prohibits a ban on employees sharing salary information amongst themselves. But AFAIK there is no direct prohibition on a contractual obligation not to disclose salary to a third party. You could of course be cute and merely disclose 1040 income or somesuch.

Re: New law bans California employers from asking applicants their prior salary

#443

Post by Matt_Mickiewicz »

hota_mazi wrote: post #158
geebee wrote: post #60

I'd prefer to see this go in the other direction and make all salary information public. Right now, employers have far more information than employees, and I don't think this law will do much to change that. To me, it's similar to real estate - imagine if only sellers had access to the database of exactly what every house sold for and when, but buyers had to go with unsubstantiated, scattered rumors. Or vise versa. T…

> make all salary information public. It's a disastrous idea. First of all, if you mean public as in "the whole world can know", I can't imagine anyone being comfortable with that. Advertisers, family members, people who don't like you, etc... surely you see the problem here. If by public you mean "only within the company", even this approach will create resentment and hundreds of hours wasted in discussions and nego…

All H1b salary data is already public.

Re: New law bans California employers from asking applicants their prior salary

#444

Post by jdavis703 »

icelancer wrote: post #361
jdavis703 wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And that money could be going to an ex-spouse, paying down debt, etc. It's not like we're making the contents of OPs bank account public.

Do you think would-be robbers will give me the benefit of the doubt? I'd prefer to not trust them.

I have no idea the mindset of these robbers who seem to be after your paycheck, but I do know that Norway has made salary information public [0], and they have a very low crime rate [1], in fact it's far lower than the U.S. crime rate.

0: https://qz.com/784186/in-norway-you-can-browse-everyones-tax...

1: http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Norway/Unit...

Re: New law bans California employers from asking applicants their prior salary

#445

Post by tiggybear »

kartan wrote: post #434
hota_mazi wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is the best possible feedback for me. See the little role play I offered in my other answer. It's not always the best possible feedback for you. First, because you might think the feedback is not justified. Your manager will tell you that other person is better than you according to some metric and you are very likely to disagree. And then what? Anguish, stress on your end. Resentment of your manager, your peers…

> First, because you might think the feedback is not justified. That is a clear signal that there is a misalignment between my expectations and company expectations. It is important to clarify the point. And to see how it can be resolved so I can offer to the company what it's expected from me. > Your manager will tell you that other person is better than you according to some metric and you are very likely to disagr…

>What is the reason to not get a salary accordingly to my seniority, expertise and work output?

I've said this many times and will say it again, most people's salaries are more closely aligned with their leverage than their output. Now leverage can be value too, so it's a complicated picture to unpack and I won't get into it too much.

People who are benefitting more so from leverage (which tends to be the people with the best salaries) will HATE this move. Salary transparency would take away their leverage and they would have to focus more on their output to justify their high salaries.

Re: New law bans California employers from asking applicants their prior salary

#446

Post by gehwartzen »

alexanderstears wrote: post #18
civilian wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Equifax has salary data? I hadn't heard that. //edit: Well shit, TIL: https://krebsonsecurity.com/2017/10/equifax-breach-fallout-y...

They do - I'm not sure how they licence it though or what data sources they use but I've seen that their data on high income households is the best in the business and shockingly accurate. However, I can't imagine the compliance nightmare that would exist around a process that lets HR people look up people's equifax information. If they get a full report, it could contain information about disabilities, national orig…

They (The work Number/Equifax) don't license it at all. Company's pay for the privilege in fact. It's sold as outsourcing the "costly" HR task of providing salary data themselves. Other companys or individuals then pay Equifax $35 to make a single enquiry or subscribe at a monthly rate.

Users include 82% of all F500 companies and they have 225 employment records.

My company uses it :(

http://redtape.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/01/30/16762661-exclusi...

This is a pretty shocking news article regarding the last time Eqifax was in the news about this a few years ago. At that time (like now) they were selling the data to all kinds of companies.

Re: New law bans California employers from asking applicants their prior salary

#447

Post by fictionfuture »

As a relatively success California (SF) based software entrepreneur, I have to say that new companies would have to be crazy to move to California to start a business.

Raise money here, then leave if you know what’s good for you. #protip

(These type of policies may be good for employees but are a nightmare for management..)

Re: New law bans California employers from asking applicants their prior salary

#448

Post by gehwartzen »

ericd wrote: post #422
falcolas wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or getting it automatically from the employers in exchange for having access to it for new hires.

I doubt most employers would go for that, but I suppose it's possible. More importantly, though, it'd also be much harder than getting it from a payroll provider.

According to wiki they have 225 million employment records and according to The Work Number they are used by 82% of Fortune 500 employers.

Then they turn around and sell all that data while telling the participating companies what a wonderful service they are providing them by offloading this task from traditional HR.

It's crazy.

Re: New law bans California employers from asking applicants their prior salary

#449

Post by manfredo »

mirrormind wrote: post #132
geebee wrote: post #60

I'd prefer to see this go in the other direction and make all salary information public. Right now, employers have far more information than employees, and I don't think this law will do much to change that. To me, it's similar to real estate - imagine if only sellers had access to the database of exactly what every house sold for and when, but buyers had to go with unsubstantiated, scattered rumors. Or vise versa. T…

h1b salary data is public. here you go: https://lcr-pjr.doleta.gov/index.cfm?event=ehLCJRExternal.ds... btw, its not just shortage of "workers". Like it or not.. some h1b workers do have skills that you lack

Actually this is the salary of the H1B (and some other types of work visas) applications, which specifies a minimum salary. They may make more.
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