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Organizers have unionized 5,000 contract workers at Apple, Facebook, Yahoo

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Re: Organizers have unionized 5,000 contract workers at Apple, Facebook, Yahoo

#441
post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Won't last long. Few more years, and it will be a autonomous fleet anyways.

In the meantime this gives them enough to save for night classes / secondary education so that when automation inevitably comes, they'll have other options. Or did you just always want to discard these people regardless, paying them the minimum required for their entire working lives?

Tech companies should help these people transition out of wage slavery in a dying field.

Re: Organizers have unionized 5,000 contract workers at Apple, Facebook, Yahoo

#442
post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Won't last long. Few more years, and it will be a autonomous fleet anyways.

You might have missed this discussion from a few days ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15116861

I may have missed this discussion but if any place will have it first it most likely will be the tech communities. And may even involve cars being converted, and some sort of smart network technology. Instead of every card attempting to do this independently.

Re: Organizers have unionized 5,000 contract workers at Apple, Facebook, Yahoo

#443
post #427
post #422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you say we shouldn't have to rely on luck, do you mean in terms of not being harassed, or more generally? Because if you mean more generally, I don't know how you do that without severely curtailing people's freedoms.

Well yes of course, we should curtail the freedoms of bosses to be abusive, steal wages, and generally behave horribly to his or her employees in the same we curtail the freedoms of a physically large man to physically assault others. And even if that isn't okay for you, there are plenty of ways to do this without even curtailing anyone's "freedoms" to be abusive: we can provide government jobs to all workers if they…

Those are what I meant by harass. We already do, there are a number of laws on the books that address those things. That said, the legal system could certainly be made more accessible.

Re: Organizers have unionized 5,000 contract workers at Apple, Facebook, Yahoo

#444
post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being a constituent of X (in this context) means means X is expected to advocate for you. Thus Eric Garner wasn't a constituent of NYC, he was a constituent of his representatives, who may or may not have done a good job advocating for the safety of those interviewed or detained by the police. I don't see how constituency doesn't help here, because now we can hold reps responsible for advocating for better protection…

> I don't see how constituency doesn't help here, because now we can hold reps responsible for advocating for better protection, New York politics (both city and state) are structured in a way that is unbelievably stable (to the status quo) and therefore all-but-impossible to use as a vehicle to effect meaningful change, even to a degree that's possible in other cities and states. In the case of Eric Garner, yes, it'…

Would publicly funded elections help this problem? I know NYC and some states have Fair Elections implemented in some form

Re: Organizers have unionized 5,000 contract workers at Apple, Facebook, Yahoo

#445
post #444

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't see how constituency doesn't help here, because now we can hold reps responsible for advocating for better protection, New York politics (both city and state) are structured in a way that is unbelievably stable (to the status quo) and therefore all-but-impossible to use as a vehicle to effect meaningful change, even to a degree that's possible in other cities and states. In the case of Eric Garner, yes, it'…

Would publicly funded elections help this problem? I know NYC and some states have Fair Elections implemented in some form

> Would publicly funded elections help this problem? I know NYC and some states have Fair Elections implemented in some form

No. New York already publicly funds elections. The problem is that the parties have constructed a system that allows them to bypass voters' wishes entirely[0], and that system is beyond voters' control[1][2].

On top of this, New York voter disenfranchisement and gerrymandering is actually way worse than pretty much any other state that you usually hear about in the news. The difference is that it has bipartisan support in New York - since both parties benefit from it equally (at the state level), there isn't any political benefit (to those in power) to drawing attention to it and fixing it.

This system also affects the state courts, so no state court case will ever overturn it. So, short of a federal court case like what happened in North Carolina, there's no way to fix it. And I doubt that it's ever going to happen, because neither left-wing nor right-wing groups actually want to fix it.

[0] https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/18/nyregion/new-york-politic...

[1] https://twitter.com/chimeracoder/status/908486948972580864

[2] https://twitter.com/chimeracoder/status/910229632590467072

Re: Organizers have unionized 5,000 contract workers at Apple, Facebook, Yahoo

#446

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I felt that same excitement when I was a kid. Like 10 years ago maybe? The excitement of making a computer do what you want it to do. I used to mod Halo Combat Evolved games for fun and just put random code together and make shit work, picked up HTML and CSS even trying to make myself and some friends clan websites! My father didnt foster it as much, and somewhere along the line I stopped messing around and tinkering…

Web dev, possibly mobile app dev. Not the shining cutting edge, you'll struggle to compete, but the "boring" bread and butter stuff (think "utility company app for meter reading" and "replacing that brittle/broken Sharepoint/Excel based workflow with a simple Ruby on Rails CRUD app" more than "instagram" and "cloud AI internet-of-things"). Focus on adding (and articulating) real business value, not on getting to play…

Well I'm in NY if that helps.

> Alternatively, find a niche that needs fixing with a CRUD web app, then build and sell it.

Would you care to expand on that a bit please? Thanks!

Re: Organizers have unionized 5,000 contract workers at Apple, Facebook, Yahoo

#447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a tech union would significantly raise the wages of technical people. A past job, I automated away jobs at $0.10 on the dollar and made a healthy salary, but it obviously was 1/10th of what I was worth. I left that company and all those jobs are still automated away and the more the company grows, the more they save. Also a tech union could push for perks like developer offices, remote work, better work equip…

> I think a tech union would significantly raise the wages of technical people. By what mechanism? Either they engage in collective bargaining, which is filled with problems, or artificially constrict the supply of labor by requiring additional licensing. Considering there is already a shortage of software engineers, constricting it further is unlikely to be net positive. From where I'm standing, the current system w…

The only thing tech unions would enshrine is the use of certain companies' proprietary technology, by way of requiring entrants to be qualified in it as part of a licensing regime.

In short, I have zero confidence tech unions wouldn't be owned by the big tech industry companies.

Re: Organizers have unionized 5,000 contract workers at Apple, Facebook, Yahoo

#448

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole point of those groups is to put up barriers to entry, which is something I extremely oppose. It is also about forcing people into their collective bargaining process. I do not want anyone else to ever negotiate for me. I will negotiate for myself, because I am the one person who is most incentived to look out for myself. Furthermore, once a union is established, it is very difficult to opt out. The screen a…

"The whole point of those groups is to put up barriers to entry, which is something I extremely oppose." No, it's not.

Yes, it is. The whole point of a union is making labor more expensive to drive up wages.

Re: Organizers have unionized 5,000 contract workers at Apple, Facebook, Yahoo

#449
post #444

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would publicly funded elections help this problem? I know NYC and some states have Fair Elections implemented in some form

> Would publicly funded elections help this problem? I know NYC and some states have Fair Elections implemented in some form No. New York already publicly funds elections. The problem is that the parties have constructed a system that allows them to bypass voters' wishes entirely[0], and that system is beyond voters' control[1][2]. On top of this, New York voter disenfranchisement and gerrymandering is actually way w…

Thanks for the explanations. I do actually think that NYS does not have Fair Elections like Maine or Arizona has implemented.

The left in the US doesn't want focus on boring things like election law because it is currently addicted to feeding its project of hearsay-ridden alarmist identity politics, the kind that would inspire someone to for example endorse the violence at Speaker's Corner despite the existing video of the incident. Election law will not appeal to young leftists for reasons obvious to those who have been through the throes of Tumblr and now Twitter politics, where the incentives to control others through social status and guilt creates a fractal prison of power structures, and have managed to grow out of it.

Individual thinkers in the Anglosphere who would rather see progressive activist resources directed toward concrete issues like corruption or housing, and actually talk plainly about the reality of the current directionless Internet dark age on the Left that siphons away these resources into nothingness, like Angela Nagle, Jesse Singal, Freddie DeBoer, and L.H. Fang suffer accusations of holding every sort of oppressive mindset from more popular leftist figures.

Re: Organizers have unionized 5,000 contract workers at Apple, Facebook, Yahoo

#450

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Web dev, possibly mobile app dev. Not the shining cutting edge, you'll struggle to compete, but the "boring" bread and butter stuff (think "utility company app for meter reading" and "replacing that brittle/broken Sharepoint/Excel based workflow with a simple Ruby on Rails CRUD app" more than "instagram" and "cloud AI internet-of-things"). Focus on adding (and articulating) real business value, not on getting to play…

Well I'm in NY if that helps. > Alternatively, find a niche that needs fixing with a CRUD web app, then build and sell it. Would you care to expand on that a bit please? Thanks!

The business world is silly with workflows that involves emailing wonky spreadsheets full of opaque formulas around or convoluted filing of documents in deep directory trees on a network drive or actual honest to god paper forms. Spend half a day in any sizable office environment as a capable developer, and you'll identify potential for hundreds of hours of savings by switching workflows to simple applications that are little more than said CRUD web apps.

I can recommend reading the early stuff on kalzumeus.com, about the bingo card creator. Same guy is also a prolific contributor here, as patio11.

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