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The Company Behind Many Surprise Emergency Room Bills

nytimes.com

441–450 of 481 posts

Re: The Company Behind Many Surprise Emergency Room Bills

#441

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In contrast, to America working for a good employer: 1. Schedule with GP. Say I am in pain. Get in within 2 days. 2. Get a referral to Physical Therapy. Asked if I have any preference where to go. My doctor knows my network and gave me a number of choices that were within network (a number of which were within walking range of where I lived). 3. Call PT office. Schedule an appointment. They apologize that their next…

Two days to schedule with a GP? That's insane... In Australia (with our universal healthcare) it's pretty much always same-day for a GP... X-rays and blood tests are generally same day and free, I've even had an MRI scheduled for next-day (just a knee thing, not an emergency) and again no out of pocket cost.

GP is same day for anything important, and if I am willing to see any GP I can go to a walk in clinic (urgent care). My GP is rather popular a it can take a day or two to get in and see her. The 20+ minute appointments are super nice though.

Tests are all same day.

Re: The Company Behind Many Surprise Emergency Room Bills

#442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, We've tried. It does little good. This last Saturday, there was a peaceful protest of around 200 people held in DC in front of Congress. One of my friends attended this protest. Around 150 of them were arrested, and then given bullshit charges, like crowding, obstructing, incommoding, or resisting arrest (of what charge were they being arrested for, angering Trump...).* When you try to "peacably protes…

We have rules in place that allow the population to peacefully protest without interfering with the business of others. These people didn't follow the rules and were punished accordingly just like every other law on the books. If you are unable to enact the change you want from within the system it's because not enough people agree with the change you are proposing. Welcome to the complexities of Society. If you don'…

So protest is fine as long as its easy to completely ignore?

Most of the great social and political progress in western nations has come from mass civil disobedience. You take that away and you begin to stagnate.

Re: The Company Behind Many Surprise Emergency Room Bills

#443
post #4

Over here (in Europe) we get the impression that US has such a crazy healthcare system. Why aren't people marching in the streets? Is it not as crazy as it sounds for most users? If you're taken to ER how are you supposed to know if the doctors are all part of "your network" (whatever that even means)?

UK but live in the US now - simply because to them this is always how it has been. The UK cried and moaned when the NHS was introduced but now (aside from Conservative efforts to "starve the beast" on it) most wouldn't go back for the world (though it could be improved , obviously). The US has a mentality that it's the best in the world for everything. Even when it's objectively not true (like in healthcare) this col…

> The US has a mentality that it's the best in the world for everything.

Fundamentalism, basically.

Or maybe fanaticism is a better word.

Re: The Company Behind Many Surprise Emergency Room Bills

#444

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Single payer wasn't the problem with his case. No health insurance company would have voluntarily paid for an experimental treatment for him. The state has power, even in the USA, to make decisions for the benefit of children if the state decides that the parents aren't acting in the best interest of the child. There is a perfectly valid argument to be made that the state should not have intervened (this is subjectiv…

In the U.S., the doctors do not have standing to appear in court and order treatment, or non-treatment, for a patient. That is solely up to the family, and if there is no family, the court appoints a guardian. There is no way this situation could have happened in the U.S., where the parents were forbid to pay for own treatment. I think it does concern single-payer. I can only think of the quote, "A government powerfu…

I'm not entirely sure that's true in the US, that people can make medical decisions on behalf of a minor without any legal coverage of whether it's in their best interests, but I'm not familiar enough with US law.

However if we look at the facts of this case: http://www.gosh.nhs.uk/frequently-asked-questions-about-char...

"One of the factors that influenced this decision was that Charlie’s brain was shown to be extensively damaged at a cellular level. The clinician in the US who is offering the treatment agrees that the experimental treatment will not reverse the brain damage that has already occurred.

The entire highly experienced UK team, all those who provided second opinions and the consultant instructed by the parents all agreed that further treatment would be futile – meaning it would be pointless or of no effective benefit."

Edit: oh yes, and the court submissions are interesting reading (via twitter:) https://t.co/Wjs7KrRWMU

> When the hospital was informed that the Professor had new laboratory findings causing him to believe NBT would be more beneficial to Charlie than he had previously opined, GOSH’s hope for Charlie and his parents was that that optimism would be confirmed. It was, therefore, with increasing surprise and disappointment that the hospital listened to the Professor’s fresh evidence to the Court. On 13 July he stated that not only had he not visited the hospital to examine Charlie but in addition, he had not read Charlie’s contemporaneous medical records or viewed Charlie’s brain imaging or read all of the second opinions about Charlie’s condition (obtained from experts all of whom had taken the opportunity to examine him and consider his records) or even read the Judge’s decision made on 11 April. Further, GOSH was concerned to hear the Professor state, for the first time, whilst in the witness box, that he retains a financial interest in some of the NBT compounds he proposed prescribing for Charlie. Devastatingly, the information obtained since 13 July gives no cause for optimism. Rather, it confirms that whilst NBT may well assist others in the future, it cannot and could not have assisted Charlie.

Re: The Company Behind Many Surprise Emergency Room Bills

#445
post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I had back surgery, there were all these therapists coming in the moment I got out of surgery trying to get their 1 minute in. It was throughly ridiculous. One of them was attempting to do physical therapy and pulled on my leg a little and put me into so much pain I went into shock. She probably got her $600 bucks. I am with Kaiser now and it is the most BS free medical experience I have ever had. To fix healthc…

I work in investment banking and cover hospital facilities (i.e. the "hospital chains"). You are right that the Kaiser model, or what the industry calls fully integrated systems, can often produce more efficient healthcare. For people that aren't as familiar with the healthcare system, I thought it might be helpful to provide a brief overview of why that is the case. Since the ACA, there has been an emphasis on shift…

I appreciate the time it took you to explain all that. You did a good job.

I am in the opposite camp and don't have the time to write out my position to the extent you did. However, I'd just like to take a moment to point out the ludicrousness of calling something that isn't Fee For Service "Value Based", as if there's anything in the world more "value based" than paying someone for the value rendered in a specific service.

Re: The Company Behind Many Surprise Emergency Room Bills

#446

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, prices were rising before ACA and continued to rise thereafter. I'm not sure on the rate of increase, but the absolute levels are getting to the impossible. Regardless of the cause, it's extremely frustrating to be hit with such a large monthly bill for rather poor coverage. I'm not quite as bad off as 0xbear, but we're at $1550/mo for a family of three for much crappier coverage than we had a few years back. He…

> Argue the whys all you want, these sky high rates have to change. If you don't argue the whys, you're mostly providing a lot of noise that is convenient cover for the next attempt to bilk insured people. Yes, premiums are way too high. They are not high "because ACA", though. In fact, they'll rise at a much faster rate if we get rid of ACA. (The latest bill had an annual rise of $11.4K for a single male adult >62 y…

Certainly, and I am in full agreement with you on pretty much everything you said.

I'm ranting against those who continually tell me "it's not that bad", "suck it up", "you're lucky you have insurance" or some variation of the above.

The first step in fixing the problem is to recognize the problem, and there's many I've talked with that reflexively reject the premise that there is a problem in the first place because of what that means for the ACA.

The foundational issue is that we're stuck in an uncanny valley between single payer and private insurance. Either single payer or private could be viable, but not the unholy menagerie we have now.

The high costs, over prescription and under prevention that are bloating the system all driven by that issue and could be solved with a single arbiter that gets the bill, whether that be the government or the citizen.

The best proposal I've seen is a two-tier system like Germany has, with public healthcare for all and private healthcare available for the rich. That tends to rub Americans the wrong way because fairness, but really solves most of the problems because it gets universal coverage to spread the risk pool while accepting the natural impulse to want to pay for better care if you can rather than rejecting that option out of hand like some single payer systems do.

Re: The Company Behind Many Surprise Emergency Room Bills

#447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, prices were rising before ACA and continued to rise thereafter. I'm not sure on the rate of increase, but the absolute levels are getting to the impossible. Regardless of the cause, it's extremely frustrating to be hit with such a large monthly bill for rather poor coverage. I'm not quite as bad off as 0xbear, but we're at $1550/mo for a family of three for much crappier coverage than we had a few years back. He…

> Argue the whys all you want, these sky high rates have to change. If you don't argue the whys, you're mostly providing a lot of noise that is convenient cover for the next attempt to bilk insured people. Yes, premiums are way too high. They are not high "because ACA", though. In fact, they'll rise at a much faster rate if we get rid of ACA. (The latest bill had an annual rise of $11.4K for a single male adult >62 y…

[deleted]

Re: The Company Behind Many Surprise Emergency Room Bills

#448
post #421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They anticipated Obama care in 1999? Obama only took office in 2009.

Not they didn't. But they did during 2009. By July, a number of bills were already approved by committees in the House. And the Fall is usually when the companies get prices for the next year. So it went up sharply then. Then in again in 2010. Price is not always comparable because the level of coverage had also changed. We had to get new plans and while they covered some mandatory free procedures and didn't have lif…

So you are saying we should consider one year earlier in the analysis?

Re: The Company Behind Many Surprise Emergency Room Bills

#449
post #421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not they didn't. But they did during 2009. By July, a number of bills were already approved by committees in the House. And the Fall is usually when the companies get prices for the next year. So it went up sharply then. Then in again in 2010. Price is not always comparable because the level of coverage had also changed. We had to get new plans and while they covered some mandatory free procedures and didn't have lif…

So you are saying we should consider one year earlier in the analysis?

We should look at bit earlier 2009 at least.

That doesn't mean we'll find a larger jump there, I found it for my self, but the KFF study shows there wasn't in general. However discarding date legislation has passed is also dishonest as factcheck did. Companies which are affected by regulations monitor them closely and adjust to them correspondingly.

Re: The Company Behind Many Surprise Emergency Room Bills

#450
post #408
post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is ludicrous! I have insurance, & still this will completely drain me financially. I'm at the point where I almost think it would be easier to declare bankruptcy and start over! I worked in insurance for over five years. Not this kind of insurance, but it was a kind of health insurance. a) Get a letter of "medical necessity" drafted by your primary care physician. b) Call the insurance company and ask about the…

sounds a lot like there's a startup like that parking ticket startup, but for medical bills.

If you are talking about this:

https://nextshark.com/youll-love-what-this-startup-does-with...

Here are some thoughts:

Fixed takes a percentage of the dollar value of tickets that get dismissed and you pay nothing for the service if it is not fixed.

Trying to get money out of an insurance company is sort of the opposite problem, though it gets monetized essentially the same way. Independent adjusters monetize by taking a cut of claims paid. This is basically the same monetization scheme that lawyers use for things like suing someone over an accident: They take a cut of cases they win, and you pay nothing if they lose. As far as I know, independent adjusters only work on real estate related claims, not health claims.

Last I checked, the only people legally entitled to talk to the insurance company on your behalf are your insurance agent of record, a lawyer or an independent adjuster. So, in practice, you would be talking about independent adjusters for the health insurance space. I am not clear that would even fly, legally.

Health insurance is a pain in part because it is very highly regulated. It has to comply with both federal and state laws in all jurisdictions in which it operates and laws for both health companies and financial services companies. Thus, it is subject to both HIPAA (Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act) and The Gramm–Leach–Bliley Act (GLBA), also known as the Financial Services Modernization Act of 1999. I got annual training in Gramm-Leach-Bliley when I had an insurance job. Furthermore, claims must be reviewed and paid in accordance with various state laws. The company where I worked kept a database of "state exceptions." If you don't know those state exceptions yourself, good luck arguing the matter with an insurance company.

You are talking about a very challenging problem space.

I have had it cross my mind to offer a service helping people file claims with the company I once worked for. Although I haven't worked there in a while and some things have no doubt changed, I probably could help some people get more money out of their policy. But I have never gotten past the idle thought stage in part because insurance is such a pain of an industry, and in part for other reasons.

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