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“Let her speak please”

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Re: “Let her speak please”

#441
post #429
post #426

Why do activists like these always have to write that they "shake"? I usually stop reading and taking them seriously.

because normal human beings have a stress response that includes adrenaline being released. they are literally shaking, and they are accurately describing their stress response.

Yes, but it makes it sound ridiculous. If I am going to include all my emotional responses to an event every time I write about something it will become ridiculous and annoying at one point.

Can you not be annoyed by something without starting to shake every time? Especially if you try to interpret rudeness as sexism...

Re: “Let her speak please”

#442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Here's a thought, treat them as people and not "a black" or "a woman". You don't have to ingratiate yourself in the fear that some random person will think you're a racist. I think you need to read through this thread. People are assigning motivations to the host: "He is sexist" . Maybe he is, maybe he isn't. I'm sure he'd say that he is not, but plenty of people here are saying he is. Is it crazy to think the same…

An easy solution is to give less fucks what other people think and just try not to be a dick.

Most of the time. There's a monologue near the end of Team America: World Police that goes further into the nuances of it. Basically, don't be a dick, unless you're talking to an asshole.

Re: “Let her speak please”

#443

The exaggeration of this post is infuriating. I saw the video, and while I do agree that Jim Holt was especially rude in asking questions and then start talking as soon as she started answering, that is all it is. Rudeness. Not sexism. He did it with the men too.

CSB time: A while ago, I had lunch with a group of friends from university and a (male) professor we'd all had.

I thought it was pleasant, but soon after we were done with lunch, I got a text from a female friend of mine who was also there: "Prof. So-and-so is a sexist bastard, I am so mad."

I was taken aback, because I'd been sitting right next to both of them, and...what had happened that I'd noticed nothing?

Turns out the professor had ignored my friend the whole time, even though he'd spoken to everyone else there.

Does this make him sexist? He's very liberal, and I'm sure he'd take the side of the women in this thread. Maybe he just didn't remember my friend. There was another woman there he spoke to, at least some. There are a lot of "maybe"s.

But after talking to my friend, what she concluded is, she gets treated differently than the men around her all the time. Any one instance is usually something she can brush off as due to something other than sexism. But taken as a whole, the evidence of being her disproves the null hypothesis that the reason she's being treated differently isn't because of her gender.

And so I think that when you're responding to a particular instance, like this, or like my friend at lunch -- and particularly if you're a man responding to such an instance -- you should try to take a step back. It is perhaps plausible in a particular instance that what happened had nothing to do with anyone's gender. We can imagine all kinds of explanations. And it's likely that whatever happened was not the result of active malice and hatred of women or a particular woman. But that doesn't mean that sexism doesn't exist, or that this is not a datum pointing strongly in the direction of, women are treated differently than men.

So when TFA says, "the sexism is beyond blatant", understand that this is coming from her perspective, which is more valid than that of someone like me who doesn't experience discrimination on the basis of my gender (or anything else, for that matter) on a daily basis. And clearly many people in the audience shared her perspective.

If you don't share her perspective, that's OK. But I think you'd do the women in the world a big favor if you'd just...let it go. "I see it differently." OK. nbd. There's no need to be "infuriated". You will never know what it's like to be another person, so it's expected that you're going to see things differently. WAI, let's move on.

Or, if you don't want to move on, maybe spend some time considering what it might be like to be her.

Re: “Let her speak please”

#445

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"If you wear sexism-colored glasses, don't be surprised if everything looks like sexism." and if you wear glasses that block out sexism, don't be surprised if nothing looks like sexism.

It's magical sexism. Everyone agrees in the abstract that sexism must exist, but there are no actual incidents that can be positively attributed to sexism.

Sexism is like racism. It's a pattern of behavior. It is difficult to determine that a single act is motivated by sexism unless the actor uses terminology that deliberately casts it in that light.

Re: “Let her speak please”

#446

Everyone reading this please, please, please watch the video. It is ridiculously not what it seems. I read the comments here, and the FB post and after watching it in full context you get such a different perspective. And it is just as the lady on the panelist has said in her comment. The moderator is trying to simplify things for the audience. After introducing her he tries to create an analogy as to how to think ab…

WHERE IS THE VIDEO?

Re: “Let her speak please”

#447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In what way? Sure, it's an additional perspective, but it sounds like you're suggesting it should somehow alter the audience perspective.

She saw it as questioner trying to put on table his understanding of the theory so she can correct him in his understanding. e.g. Mam, you tell me if I got this correctly. This is how I think it works... I think it is actually a position of submission in a discussion, the person who is doing the talking is accepting the higher authority of person doing the listening to find errors in your understanding of the subject…

Right, which is why this happened to none of the other experts?

If you're going to play devil's advocate, at least use the evidence...

Re: “Let her speak please”

#448

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"If you wear sexism-colored glasses, don't be surprised if everything looks like sexism." and if you wear glasses that block out sexism, don't be surprised if nothing looks like sexism.

It's magical sexism. Everyone agrees in the abstract that sexism must exist, but there are no actual incidents that can be positively attributed to sexism.

That's the way this stuff works, and why it's so hard to fight. Racism, sexism, homophobia, the list goes on. The reason is that bigotry isn't conscious, it's subconscious.

Re: “Let her speak please”

#449

Everyone reading this please, please, please watch the video. It is ridiculously not what it seems. I read the comments here, and the FB post and after watching it in full context you get such a different perspective. And it is just as the lady on the panelist has said in her comment. The moderator is trying to simplify things for the audience. After introducing her he tries to create an analogy as to how to think ab…

WHERE IS THE VIDEO?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Er7qPv8jsZo#t=1h1m53s

Re: “Let her speak please”

#450
post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, a level-headed comment is what is required in this situation. This is her livelihood, her career.. Pretty much everything for her. If she was to attack her colleagues, it would spell certain doom for her career. Her opinions and proofs would be dismissed and denigrated. And the specter of "Will I be accused of sexism if I pan this paper?" will rear its ugly head anywhere she would turn. Think of this as an an…

Aren't you doing the same thing the moderator did? You're dismissing her comments out-of-hand as not entirely honest and assuming you know her true feelings. Maybe now that she's been given the opportunity to speak, we should listen to and consider her thoughts.

kefka's comment appears* to be carefully worded to comment only on the situation she finds herself in, and does not make any assertions about her state of mind.

*does HN indicate when a comment has been edited?

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