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To fix L.A.'s traffic, we need tolls

latimes.com

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Re: To fix L.A.'s traffic, we need tolls

#441

Post by csharpminor »

timthelion wrote: post #269
anthony_romeo wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kinda related to what you talk about, one problem is that lots of buses are just old . In Massachusetts, over the past year or so the MBTA has been rolling out new buses that are comfortable, smoother, rather quiet, and more energy efficient than the older buses. I'd actually argue that our bus system is far better than our train system. I wonder if it's a feedback loop sort of issue. The buses are old and crummy ->…

But a new tram is EVEN BETTER than a new bus, and Prague has 50-60 year old trams that are as good as a new bus.

Sorry, but what makes a tram better than a bus? I'm genuinely curious.

As far as I can tell they're much more expensive per mile, have difficulty on hills, and make the street more dangerous for cyclists. The only advantage trams seem to have is that they don't have the stigma of busses.

Re: To fix L.A.'s traffic, we need tolls

#442

Post by bootloop »

reillyse wrote: post #427

LA doesn't have a traffic problem. People just have overly high expectations. As someone who has also lived and commuted in lots of cities around the world, LA just doesn't have that much of a problem. What other major city in the world would you expect to be able to drive 15 miles through the centre at rush hour and get to your destination in under an hour (I'm using as reference Downtown LA to Santa Monica at 9am,…

I don't know. I am from europe and visited a few north american cities in the past, including LA. No or bad public transport was the norm but LA was a whole other level. You get out of the airport and there is a endless line of car rental places after each other. That makes it clear to you that you won't get far without a car. Going into the city or out takes you on a ridiculous wide highway which is basically a permanent traffic jam. And in general it seems like a car is a first class citizen in this city. (As you said, so much car infrastructure.) So wierd. If it isn't for work I would not go there ever again I guess.

Re: To fix L.A.'s traffic, we need tolls

#443

Post by seanmcdirmid »

xenihn wrote: post #434
reillyse wrote: post #427

LA doesn't have a traffic problem. People just have overly high expectations. As someone who has also lived and commuted in lots of cities around the world, LA just doesn't have that much of a problem. What other major city in the world would you expect to be able to drive 15 miles through the centre at rush hour and get to your destination in under an hour (I'm using as reference Downtown LA to Santa Monica at 9am,…

>What other major city in the world would you expect to be able to drive 15 miles through the centre at rush hour and get to your destination in under an hour It takes thirty minutes to go a mile in traffic where I'm at (West LA, near Brentwood and Santa Monica). Then an hour to go 5 miles in any direction on the 10 or 405. It's really bad.

I just moved to LA (westwood) from Beijing last August. The traffic here is so light in LA compared to Beijing, and the air is really clean as well. In Beijing, it could take me a couple of hours to get home on 4th ring, 3rd ring was worse! And the traffic didn't disappear at 7PM, maybe 8 or 9.

Re: To fix L.A.'s traffic, we need tolls

#445

Post by reillyse »

bootloop wrote: post #442
reillyse wrote: post #427

LA doesn't have a traffic problem. People just have overly high expectations. As someone who has also lived and commuted in lots of cities around the world, LA just doesn't have that much of a problem. What other major city in the world would you expect to be able to drive 15 miles through the centre at rush hour and get to your destination in under an hour (I'm using as reference Downtown LA to Santa Monica at 9am,…

I don't know. I am from europe and visited a few north american cities in the past, including LA. No or bad public transport was the norm but LA was a whole other level. You get out of the airport and there is a endless line of car rental places after each other. That makes it clear to you that you won't get far without a car. Going into the city or out takes you on a ridiculous wide highway which is basically a perm…

Yes car is king in LA. In recent years though Lyft/Uber have changed the game a lot. I'd say it's cost effective to not have a car at this stage, especially when you add in the cost of parking.

Re: To fix L.A.'s traffic, we need tolls

#447

Post by marze »

Free market approaches seem to work well generally. Why not for roads? Seems self evident.

Anything you make cheaper will be used more, more expensive, less. Econ 101.

What would be an excellent solution is to make fast dedicated bus lanes, and make every bus free. Improves employment, bus ridership, and is probably cheaper than adding an extra lane to a single freeway.

Re: To fix L.A.'s traffic, we need tolls

#448

Post by reillyse »

idlewords wrote: post #433
reillyse wrote: post #427

LA doesn't have a traffic problem. People just have overly high expectations. As someone who has also lived and commuted in lots of cities around the world, LA just doesn't have that much of a problem. What other major city in the world would you expect to be able to drive 15 miles through the centre at rush hour and get to your destination in under an hour (I'm using as reference Downtown LA to Santa Monica at 9am,…

London, Paris, NYC and Tokyo all have a comprehensive subway system and light rail covering the extended metro area. For many parts of LA, driving (or taking a bus through terrible traffic) is the only option.

Sure, but travelling on those systems takes a long time. When I lived in London a 1 hour commute was seen as totally normal. That was by train and I had a very direct single overground train to take (Kentish town to Chiswick if I remember).

Re: To fix L.A.'s traffic, we need tolls

#449

Post by ghaff »

m-j-fox wrote: post #421
ghaff wrote: post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, but Manhattan traffic hasn't actually improved has it? The volume wasn't allowed to grow indefinitely but that's a different matter.

The account in the book says traffic improved in the neighborhood where they removed the roads. It was a small-scale experiment. Subsequently NYC built a bunch more roads and traffic got worse. True believers point to a cause-and-effect relationship, but cities are complicated so it's hard to be sure. The ideal plan for Jacobs might be Amsterdam. No cars, no traffic. It's so simple.

Yeah. A lot of people on here tend to elevate Jabobs (who I admire). But her objective wasn't to fit more people in or move more traffic through a space. It was to create a more vibrant city even if that meant that more people couldn't live or work there.

A lot of people who remember Jacobs' preference for cities that don't require cars to get around ignore the fact that she didn't necessarily favor central planning and high rises either.

Re: To fix L.A.'s traffic, we need tolls

#450

Post by seanmcdirmid »

jaredklewis wrote: post #276
freedrock87 wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because housing is so cheap in Paris.

My impression is that yes, housing in Paris is cheaper than in LA. https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?cou...

Those numbers are really outdated for LA.
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