I am an Uber survivor • Hacker News Board

Re: I am an Uber survivor

#441

Post by lovich » Mon, Feb 27, 2017, 11:31 PM UTC

cyberpunk wrote: post #305

yummyfajitas wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you just trying to verify the legitimacy of the post? If someone finds the courage to speak out, why would you then try to out them for doing so? Because if it's not legitimate then it's worth knowing that? To me, this story seems far more suspicious than Fowler. Does it even matter if it's faked if most of us could totally believe it's not? Perhaps a variety of fake incidents have caused you to believe things th…

What would be the motivation behind creating a 'false' rhetoric such as the experiences of women in tech? I've certainly seen this happening / had to deal with it, I do feel that this is still an issue and something we need to improve. While it's not an across the board problem, I suspect most women working in tech would agree with me; the story, which I don't stand behind as as legitimate, is very similar to the sor…

I normally disagree with everything 'yummyfajitas posts, and I personally dislike Uber due to the number of well documented unethical actions they've taken. Additionally, I think this type of story has played out so many times that no one thinks the story is truly unbelievable.

In light of all of that I still think this is the kind of story that needs to be verified before action is taken. Just off the top of my head I could think of a number of reasons for someone to create a false story in this situation ranging from semi-believable, a competitor like Lyft adding more fuel to Uber's current PR fire, to conspiracy theory level, China trying to hurt a foreign company so that Didi Chuxing has an easier time growing.

Its unfortunate, but the internet allows unethical actors to craft and spread unverifiable stories with little effort but a high payoff due to the emotions of everyone who reads them. The same feeling that leads us to want to take action after reading this, because it would be genuinely terrible if true and we want to believe people, is the same feeling that leads anti vaxxers to believe fake science they find on the internet.

Re: I am an Uber survivor

#442

Post by ChicagoDave » Mon, Feb 27, 2017, 11:32 PM UTC

ChicagoDave wrote: post #98

ChicagoDave wrote: post #59

Everyone needs to #deleteuber.

Until and unless they have clear internal changes that allow female and minority engineers to work in a positive, equal pay for equal work environment.

And just to add an endorsement, Accenture is a highly evolved technology firm. If you're looking to work somewhere that treats everyone equally and would never tolerate a Mike #2, give them a shot. I am not an employee, but have done several contract stints internally and they are simply the best workplace I've ever been around.

Re: I am an Uber survivor

#443

Post by flippe » Mon, Feb 27, 2017, 11:32 PM UTC

We've gotten to a point where regardless of who's in the right, the most (only?) effective way to attack a huge company is controversial allegations posted under the veil of anonymity. Regardless of what (if anything) in these allegations happened, this is costing Uber ridiculous amounts of money and all it took was an anonymous blog post.

I know I'm a horrible person to say this, but if I were an Uber competitor, these posts would be part of my marketing arsenal. If unaccountable journalism produces results, it's going to be used. If it isn't already, it will. There's too much money and not enough risk in it.

And the only way to fight against this is to not let yourself be part of outrage culture. We have evidence-based courts for dealing with these things.

Re: I am an Uber survivor

#444

Post by bigiain » Mon, Feb 27, 2017, 11:32 PM UTC

comments_db wrote: post #81

I'd like to thank these brave women for coming out and speaking against these evils. I rarely use Uber but more importantly, I'm not interviewing/working for Uber ever. p.s. I've had one opportunity in the past that I declined due to lower pay package. Current one seems good, but I'm not going forward. #nouber

Don't "rarely" use it. Delete it. Now. Close your account, explaining to Uber why you've done so. Tweet/Facebook/Blog about having done so. Encourage all your friends, family, and coworkers to do the same - explaining exactly_ why you came to the decision.

There really is no other self respecting choice. Sitting on the fence is condoning and enabling their behaviour.

Re: I am an Uber survivor

#445

Post by rapfaria » Mon, Feb 27, 2017, 11:32 PM UTC

TorKlingberg wrote: post #306

tyre wrote: post #210

I'm really happy she felt comfortable doing this. What an incredibly brave and strong person—I can't imagine what she must be feeling. What I really want to see is the other 20 men on her team tell their bosses to cut that shit out. We cannot rely on the abused to stand up for themselves; for every one who does there are thousands who cannot. It is on every one of us to report abhorrent behaviour, even if we think so…

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.

Agreed, and I'm not defending Mike#2 in any way, but good men perhaps have children. Mortgage. Family plans and life goals. It's a really shitty situation.

Perhaps evil triumphs if great men do nothing?

Re: I am an Uber survivor

#446

Post by 8fGTBjZxBcHq » Mon, Feb 27, 2017, 11:33 PM UTC

ogezi wrote: post #428

RodericDay wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope they end up like Theranos.

I want them to change instead of ending up like Theranos. If Uber went down, a lot of good people would be out of a job (both employees and drivers) and it would burn a lot investors, thus negatively affecting the funding landscape for years to come. To reiterate, I wish Uber to change. I don't wish them to fail.

Nah they need to fail. Lyft or another competitor would soak up the drivers immediately, a huge number of them already drive for both.

Silicon valley alums of a top tech company are not going to be hurting for jobs in the near future.

It sets the example that bullshit like this is not workable and will bring you down. There are no net downsides to uber falling.

Re: I am an Uber survivor

#447

Post by geofft » Mon, Feb 27, 2017, 11:33 PM UTC

ogezi wrote: post #428

RodericDay wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope they end up like Theranos.

I want them to change instead of ending up like Theranos. If Uber went down, a lot of good people would be out of a job (both employees and drivers) and it would burn a lot investors, thus negatively affecting the funding landscape for years to come. To reiterate, I wish Uber to change. I don't wish them to fail.

That's a compelling argument, but I'm not actually sure I want that.

Uber's endgame is self-driving cars, which will put a lot more good people (Uber drivers and non-Uber drivers) out of a job. That's only feasible because of Uber's aggressive attitude to growth and crushing competition in long-term-unsustainable ways in the hope that the technology will materialize soon. If they change enough that this isn't their endgame or they don't pull it off in time, I don't know if they're financially viable.

I think that that goal and that pressure is part of why Uber is as rotten as it is (see how HR repeatedly doesn't want to fire abusive people who are allegedly high performers; even if the rest of their team would do better without them, Uber can't afford to figure that out).

Meanwhile, if they fail outright, it seems like basically all Uber drivers also drive for Lyft, and the engineering staff can get good jobs at lots of other places. It'll also be a good precedent for future companies not to try the strategy Uber has, and hopefully prevent more problems along these lines.

Re: I am an Uber survivor

#448

Post by dosgonlogs » Mon, Feb 27, 2017, 11:33 PM UTC

Arizhel wrote: post #351

TorKlingberg wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really don't think misogyny or harassment is connected to nerdy-ness or introversion/extroversion, in either direction. The methods probably very, but I don't think any personality type is free of the proverbial bad eggs.

>I really don't think misogyny or harassment is connected to nerdy-ness or introversion/extroversion, in either direction. I completely disagree. Stereotypically nerdy, shy, introverted men are not going to be extremely aggressive towards women in social settings; that's why they stereotypically have such a hard time getting dates: they're not even comfortable talking to women. They're certainly not going to be touch…

what in the actual? Let's not reinforce dim-witted stereotypes. There are all kinds of people. I have met the Socially Awkward, introverted, nerdy, absolute jerk prick asshole programmer as well. The type that attempts to anonymously create hentai comics of female coworkers. Nerdy men can and do become "High Performing Managers" they just use email more.

Re: I am an Uber survivor

#449

Post by xapata » Mon, Feb 27, 2017, 11:33 PM UTC

mememachine wrote: post #381

wlamartin wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is far from truth, never mind hard truth and your example is way off point. I would say there are actions which clearly don't need an indication from the aggrieved party to recognise as abuse, such as seriously telling someone to "quit being a whiny bitch" from a position of power, in front of a team, in the workplace. You don't need to be a mind reader to understand this is not acceptable behaviour. The…

>There are clearly cases in which attempting to stand up to abusive behaviour has the potential to cause more problems (at the very least in the short term) than by staying silent You seem to be confusing "standing up to abuse" and "indicating that behavior is abusive." The second is very risk-free and what I demand from anyone who wants to call themselves a victim. Again, it doesnt have to be verbal. But if youre ma…

You say people should indicate when behavior is inappropriate.

Notice the disagreement and downvotes. That's telling you your behavior is inappropriate.

Perhaps you should reconsider your position on the issue.

Re: I am an Uber survivor

#450

Post by kbenson » Mon, Feb 27, 2017, 11:33 PM UTC

ogezi wrote: post #428

RodericDay wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope they end up like Theranos.

I want them to change instead of ending up like Theranos. If Uber went down, a lot of good people would be out of a job (both employees and drivers) and it would burn a lot investors, thus negatively affecting the funding landscape for years to come. To reiterate, I wish Uber to change. I don't wish them to fail.

> If Uber went down, a lot of good people would be out of a job (both employees and drivers)

Employees yes, drivers not so much. There's plenty of competitors that would love to fill that hole.

> and it would burn a lot investors, thus negatively affecting the funding landscape for years to come.

Maybe letting investors know that company culture of how people are treated has real negative consequences would signal to them that they should pressure these companies to behave in an appropriate manner. Burning investors for ignoring the writing on the wall about Uber's behavior (there's been indications of problematic behavior of executives for years) is exactly what needs to happen.