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How Immigration Uncertainty Threatens America’s Tech Dominance

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Re: How Immigration Uncertainty Threatens America’s Tech Dominance

#441

Post by comments_db »

Chris2048 wrote: post #411
comments_db wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

India for East Indians, but not right away. It'll take continuous backlash against tech immigrant for a period of 4-8 years. Then you are going to witness new Silicon Valleys growing up organically in those places. Remember not much can be expected when everything is going smooth. That's why so many failed Silicon Valley projects. Think 10 years, not right away.

And how will you combat the corruption?

Slow organic development under stressful foreign environment. Corruption is everywhere, it just takes different forms.

Re: How Immigration Uncertainty Threatens America’s Tech Dominance

#442

Post by ghurtado »

Chris2048 wrote: post #430
ghurtado wrote: post #427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me clarify: when I see "you're being intentionally obtuse", I read "you are not just stupid, you're stupid on purpose". Because that's exactly what it is: a next level insult disguised under slightly fancier words. *Obtuse - Synonyms: stupid, slow-witted, slow, dull-witted, unintelligent, ignorant, simpleminded, witless; Needless to say, I have no patience for those kinds of insults. > Intention can be inferred S…

> I read "you are not just stupid, you're stupid on purpose" I think that's right, but without using the insult "stupid", it says the same thing. But an insult has no content, where as this does i.e "you are misunderstanding on purpose" A constructive criticism can be 'insulting', but this isn't the same as a pure insult. > "You're intentionally avoiding my question" - objective statement, not an insult and can be di…

None of what you've said would make any sense for anyone who agrees with the list of synonyms for "Obtuse" which I posted in my previous comment.

Those synonyms are from a dictionary, and they are all insults.

So I have to conclude that either:

- You have a radically different definition of "obtuse" which you somehow consider a non-insult and which is non-standard usage

- You're intentionally beating around the bush in order to avoid admitting to understand the difference between an insult and a constructive criticism :)

These are just my two hypothesis, but if you have others, I'd love to hear them.

Re: How Immigration Uncertainty Threatens America’s Tech Dominance

#443

Post by Chris2048 »

comments_db wrote: post #441
Chris2048 wrote: post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And how will you combat the corruption?

Slow organic development under stressful foreign environment. Corruption is everywhere, it just takes different forms.

> Corruption is everywhere, it just takes different forms.

In India, it takes a form that apparently disrupts startups.

What do you mean "under stressful foreign environment"?

Re: How Immigration Uncertainty Threatens America’s Tech Dominance

#444

Post by Chris2048 »

ghurtado wrote: post #442
Chris2048 wrote: post #430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I read "you are not just stupid, you're stupid on purpose" I think that's right, but without using the insult "stupid", it says the same thing. But an insult has no content, where as this does i.e "you are misunderstanding on purpose" A constructive criticism can be 'insulting', but this isn't the same as a pure insult. > "You're intentionally avoiding my question" - objective statement, not an insult and can be di…

None of what you've said would make any sense for anyone who agrees with the list of synonyms for "Obtuse" which I posted in my previous comment. Those synonyms are from a dictionary, and they are all insults. So I have to conclude that either: - You have a radically different definition of "obtuse" which you somehow consider a non-insult and which is non-standard usage - You're intentionally beating around the bush…

The meaning of a word comes from context, with a thesaurus you are meant to pick the correct word based on intended or derived meaning. The "synonyms" are not synonymous with all interpretations of a word. You can agree on a list of possible synonyms without fixing the definition.

The definition:

1. annoyingly insensitive or slow to understand.

"he wondered if the doctor was being deliberately obtuse"

> So I have to conclude..

hypothesis three: your argument wrt synonyms is incorrect. People may dislike being called "obtuse" but it is not, by standard, an insult.

Re: How Immigration Uncertainty Threatens America’s Tech Dominance

#445

Post by Chris2048 »

pm90 wrote: post #433
Chris2048 wrote: post #428

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The post says their college graduate friends...not graduates in CS Ah, I concede this. Maybe this isn't an issue in US as it is in the UK.. > They are not mutually exclusive: you can do both What stops industry becoming dependent on it though? There are big advantages to H1B visa workers, there is a risk that it saps market demand. Immigration might be the path of least resistance to solving labor shortage, rather…

There is absolutely nothing that stops the industry from being dependent on it. It is a very real risk. But restricting immigration is certainly not the solution. I've seen you argue for a market where demand doesn't meet supply as a desirable state for the labor market. If you do believe that, then there is really no basis for this particular debate. The principle of my argument has been that there is a problem, lab…

> But restricting immigration is certainly not the solution.

Why not? A restriction signals immigration as an unreliable source of labor, hence de-incentivising business to depend on it on the basis that it is a risk.

> If you're arguing that the labor shortage is not a problem

There may a problem, but labor shortage itself, is not. An excessive shortage, or an industry-crippling shortage is another thing altogether; In either case, a shortage is a necessary, but not sufficient condition of the problem.

Re: How Immigration Uncertainty Threatens America’s Tech Dominance

#446

Post by Chris2048 »

pm90 wrote: post #431
Chris2048 wrote: post #426

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the problem is that there aren't enough By what measure? > just look at how oversubscribed the H1B visa is What is your interpretation of this? Who would turn down the chance of cheap labor even without a shortage? > I can't believe how common this idea that "free market will fix everything!" is on HN This is an exaggerated characterisation; but to some degree it is necessary to rely on market principles, given how…

> What is your interpretation of this? Who would turn down the chance of cheap labor even without a shortage? The labor is not cheap. I have already explained this. > Demand is high. Why is the population count relevant? People are choosing other career paths, which means there isn't enough incentive to choose IT. It isn't. I bring it up because the parent brought it up. I think we are in agreement here. > You could,…

> The labor is not cheap. I have already explained this.

Is this:

>> 60k is NOT CHEAP LABOR in most parts of the country!

You "explanation"? Because you didn't really respond to:

>> But if it is not cheap and is a decent salary, there should be no problem filling it with American laborers.

>> If there are such cases, I posit $130k is a low end start for their salaries.

Or to: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13553710

> I have already explained this.

You haven't replied to all responses to those explanations (e.g. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13552944 ), and I haven't accepted some of your arguments yet. Can you point out which posts of your own you are referring to?

> The only reason I am replying is..

If you are going to take this arrogant tone, then take your own posts less authoritatively. It's not "open-minded" to lace your responses with such haughty barbs.

Re: How Immigration Uncertainty Threatens America’s Tech Dominance

#447

Post by comments_db »

Chris2048 wrote: post #443
comments_db wrote: post #441

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Slow organic development under stressful foreign environment. Corruption is everywhere, it just takes different forms.

> Corruption is everywhere, it just takes different forms. In India, it takes a form that apparently disrupts startups. What do you mean "under stressful foreign environment"?

> What do you mean "under stressful foreign environment"? That's the whole premise of my argument. If backlash against immigrant tech worker continues for an extended period of time, think 5-10 years not 5-10 months. You can expect exactly what I have stated.

It's not pleasant to come thousands of miles away from home, leaving family and friends behind, paying proper taxes, being a responsible community member, and doing as best as we can. Only to read all these and live thru uncertainty.

Nope, Thank You.

I'd really hope these backlash would continue for a long period of time.

Re: How Immigration Uncertainty Threatens America’s Tech Dominance

#448

Post by Chris2048 »

comments_db wrote: post #447
Chris2048 wrote: post #443

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Corruption is everywhere, it just takes different forms. In India, it takes a form that apparently disrupts startups. What do you mean "under stressful foreign environment"?

> What do you mean "under stressful foreign environment"? That's the whole premise of my argument. If backlash against immigrant tech worker continues for an extended period of time, think 5-10 years not 5-10 months. You can expect exactly what I have stated. It's not pleasant to come thousands of miles away from home, leaving family and friends behind, paying proper taxes, being a responsible community member, and d…

Maybe, but the native environment would have to be as prosperous.

Re: How Immigration Uncertainty Threatens America’s Tech Dominance

#449

Post by prodmerc »

Retric wrote: post #366
prodmerc wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> suggests you are not willing to pay market wages. Uh, or you know, you can't afford it?

That's not exclusive. I am not willing to pay for a penthouse in Manhattan, because I can't afford it. I am also not willing to pay for a live in chef, and 10,009 other things because I can't afford them. That is not a failing of society it's how capitalism allocates finite resources.

I don't get your point.

Re: How Immigration Uncertainty Threatens America’s Tech Dominance

#450

Post by Roboprog »

cpursley wrote: post #414
Roboprog wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Possibly they might look at hiring outside of the Bay Area in such exotic locations as Boise, DesMoines, Minneapolis, Detroit or other places where they have recent college graduates who would have been motivated to study STEM fields.

There's places outside of the Bay Area? Blasphemy!

Yeah, you're right. We're all a bunch of stupid-heads in Sacramento, good for nothing but doing CRUD in COBOL++ (aka Java) :-)
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