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A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

visa.lafrenchtech.com

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Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#441

Post by otoburb »

renaudg wrote: post #425

Regarding French salaries again : yes they are lower than elsewhere but with some exceptions, French employers are not the problem : they do pay the same price for you as in other European countries, more or less ! The difference is that your average engineer in France costs them around 1.5-2.5 times the total take home pay, because of high, compulsory labor taxes. In exchange, employees get as standard : * a top not…

Do you have the option to pay into the French state pension as a non-resident French citizen? For example, in Canada I'm not aware of any mechanism to voluntarily pay into the Canada Pension Plan for a strict Canadian non-resident.

This would only be of note if you plan to retire in your original country of origin, in your case France.

Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#442

Post by nkkollaw »

throwaway1892 wrote: post #96
nkkollaw wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. My point wasn't that it's not a problem in the long term, but that in some countries it's also a problem in the short term. In Poland I really felt unwelcomed on many occasions. The fact that they're extremely nationalistic doesn't help, I guess. I was surprised that even 18-year-olds wouldn't speak English to me. I'm now learning Polish.

That's odd, I felt very welcome when I was there hiking this summer. But then it might not have been in the same areas, plus the usual difference between the country and cities.

Definitely.

Also, you might just have gotten lucky (or me unlucky).

Generalizing is difficult (of course, it's impossible talking about these things without generalizing).

Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#443

Post by manarth »

true_religion wrote: post #179
finid wrote: post #165

So I tried to subscribe again and finally got a response, which reads: ` Bonjour, Nous vous confirmons que nous venons de recevoir votre email depuis http://visa.lafrenchtech.com Merci. A très vite. Bonne journée Envoyé depuis http://visa.lafrenchtech.com ` No big deal, I have a pretty good idea what that means, even though I don't speak French, but if they're trying to market to an English-speaking audience, me thin…

Why do you think they're trying to market to an English speaking audience, as opposed to a French speaking audience? French is the national language, and you'll be required to speak it in order to have a normal life.

  Why do you think they're trying to market to an English speaking audience?
Because the site is in English, without a French translation alternative. They are marketing this uniquely in English.

Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#444

Post by rubber_duck »

elithrar wrote: post #438
rubber_duck wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>but it comes with access to top-notch free healthcare Does it cover stuff like cosmetic dermatology, full dental plan (implants) ? I don't live in France, I lived in different EU countries and every time I needed something the "free health care" meant I had to pay participation fee and wait 6 months walking around appointments and ended up going private clinic. I basically got 0 value out it, considering I'm young a…

> I basically got 0 value out it, considering I'm young and healthy I would not have to pay much for insurance, you're mostly footing the bill for the pensioners. Wait, what? What if you are diagnosed with a major illness? Are in a major car accident? etc, etc. The problem in the US is that people who are otherwise comfortable and healthy have their entire fortunes turn around, for the rest of their lives, due to unf…

>Wait, what? What if you are diagnosed with a major illness?

Clean family history, healthy lifestyle (don't drink often, don't smoke, workout and watch my diet)

>Are in a major car accident? etc, etc.

Don't drive or do many high risk activities.

I'm probably at the bottom end of health risks - in a fair system my insurance would be minimal. Besides all other EU countries cover stuff like that (life changing scenarios).

Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#445

Post by xutopia »

renaudg wrote: post #425

Regarding French salaries again : yes they are lower than elsewhere but with some exceptions, French employers are not the problem : they do pay the same price for you as in other European countries, more or less ! The difference is that your average engineer in France costs them around 1.5-2.5 times the total take home pay, because of high, compulsory labor taxes. In exchange, employees get as standard : * a top not…

I can confirm this. I happen to be French and had a consulting firm in France for a couple years in the early 2000s.

I was able to charge 90kEUR/year at the time for a mid-level Java programmer. They loved the idea that they could fire the devs at any given time and having Canadian engineers helped them get funding from local VCs.

Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#446

Post by CydeWeys »

rubber_duck wrote: post #359
renaudg wrote: post #330

Raw salary comparisons miss the point : you can't really compare pre-tax salaries between countries with such a completely different taxation and benefits structure. The take home pay certainly is much, much lower in France than in the US, but it comes with access to top-notch free healthcare, free university, pension contributions, 5-7 weeks paid leave and generous unemployment insurance amongst other things. It all…

>but it comes with access to top-notch free healthcare Does it cover stuff like cosmetic dermatology, full dental plan (implants) ? I don't live in France, I lived in different EU countries and every time I needed something the "free health care" meant I had to pay participation fee and wait 6 months walking around appointments and ended up going private clinic. I basically got 0 value out it, considering I'm young a…

You don't measure insurance like that, just like you don't measure whether a wager is a good idea based on how well you happen to do in a single bet, but rather, on the expected value of the average of all possible outcomes weighted by their respective probabilities.

I'm in my early 30s, and up until last year never needed any sort of real medical treatment my entire life. Then I got I to a bike accident, fractured my tibia, almost needed surgery, and was damn glad that I did have health insurance. I could've just as easily not broken my ankle, or it could've been way, way worse. But I don't judge the value of insurance based on whether I happened to need it any given year; that's just dominated by chance.

Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#447

Post by user5994461 »

vmarsy wrote: post #398
jlangenauer wrote: post #5

Apropos of this, I was in Paris recently at a startup event, and was pleasantly shocked at the sheer number of startups and people I saw doing things. This is a good move by the French, and will help attract entrepreneurs away from other countries (particularly like those just across the channel currently inflicting generational economic damage on themselves.)

People mention the lack of VC, infrastructure, tax or other issues, but to me the biggest problem is the lack of talent. I would say that in terms of business skills, there's a surplus of "salesmen" type of founders, but technical founders are missing. France engineers are very smart and engineering school are among the best, but unfortunately I find their curriculum still oriented towards hard engineering (civil, ae…

The French engineering talent is top notch... but you'll never see it.

Go to a graduation ceremony at a top school (note: it's delayed 1-2 years after graduation) and you'll learn that the top 10% have ALL left the country, no exception.

(I'm talking about the top in terms of technical abilities, entrepreneurship and/or skills that are valuable to execute , not necessarily school grades).

Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#448

Post by pmalynin »

otoburb wrote: post #441
renaudg wrote: post #425

Regarding French salaries again : yes they are lower than elsewhere but with some exceptions, French employers are not the problem : they do pay the same price for you as in other European countries, more or less ! The difference is that your average engineer in France costs them around 1.5-2.5 times the total take home pay, because of high, compulsory labor taxes. In exchange, employees get as standard : * a top not…

Do you have the option to pay into the French state pension as a non-resident French citizen? For example, in Canada I'm not aware of any mechanism to voluntarily pay into the Canada Pension Plan for a strict Canadian non-resident. This would only be of note if you plan to retire in your original country of origin, in your case France.

Canadian here, as far as I know you can't pay into the CPP if you're not working in Canada (I have a friend who is in the exactly that situation).

But, that said you can put a lot of money into TFSAs and RRSPs.

Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#449

Post by [deleted] »

esw wrote: post #272
adventured wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People making the kind of money being discussed here, such that you trigger higher bracket income taxes, have great health insurance in the US as well. Further, decent jobs in the US almost always include health insurance compensation above the salary. I have a brother that works in a pretty normal job earning $42,000 per year (not an outsized salary in the US), he pays $27 per month for his health insurance through…

>he pays $27 per month for his health insurance through his employer, and it's a nice plan. This is really an outlier. The US average for employee premiums is $104/month for individuals and $392/month for families.

[deleted]

Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#450

Post by tornadoboy55 »

ensignavenger wrote: post #436
tornadoboy55 wrote: post #389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> get cancer, or accident, or kids > financial life ruined in the EU, not so much.

Did you miss the part where he said he had health insurance paid for by his employer?

.. which is usually capped. So you are covered for minor incidents, but anything above 200k (or whatever the cap is) will completely fuck you up. Because anything that will have that much cost will also be something serious enough to incapacitate you for a long time and leave you without income. EU healthcare usually doesn't have cap, nor a deductible of thousands of dollars.
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