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No Spanking, No Time-Out, No Problems

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Re: No Spanking, No Time-Out, No Problems

#441

Post by 0xfeba »

Fluke82 wrote: post #435
0xfeba wrote: post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It was very common everywhere until about 10-20 years ago. I keep hearing this mentioned as why "kids these days" are so stupid/weak/emotional/etc, without any proof. I'm curious if there is any (popular) research in these areas that I can show otherwise (or not!).

There is a lot(!) of research on spanking (some links below) but there is a quote I heard go around attributed to Cicero, born 106BC, that I think is a better answer to your question: "Times are bad. Children no longer obey their parents, and everyone is writing a book." Similarly I remember in my college history of communication class, we were very interested in if the Internet would destroy relationships and power…

Thanks, I've heard that dubious quote before, but still have no doubt elders have always complained about "kids these days" for as long as there have been kids and a way to complain about them.

Sorry, I should have been more specific. I'm aware of the link that physical punishment has on development, but what I wanted to know is if "kids these days", regardless of cause, are actually less capable/more entitled/etc. If there's even a way to measure such abstract claims.

In my own personal experience I would initially say yes, but I think this is where it is deceiving. For example, when I was in school I did my work and turned it in and didn't notice people who whined about their grades despite not doing any work. Now I am older and from talking with teacher friends, they constantly complain about students who act so entitled.

I think to myself, I don't remember anything like that. But those students could have existed, how would I have known at the time? Even if I didn't have my rose-tinted time-machine glasses on?

Anyway, this is all pretty obvious, just rambling.

Re: No Spanking, No Time-Out, No Problems

#442

Post by prawn »

llimllib wrote: post #436
prawn wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want to avoid promising TV/iPad as a reward, good alternatives are: "If you get in the bath, I'll go and choose a bath toy that you've never even played with before." (And then I find something random in the kitchen - ladle, colander, Tupperware, etc.) or "If you get dressed, I'll tell you something interesting about Mercury." (Or owls, or bullet trains or anything you can come up with.) Used the Mercury one w…

It's not a reward, I always let him watch buses on the iPad after the bath while I dry him off. He likes it and I don't see any problem with it. Just meant to give an example of a way that changing the framing works with a two year old (/anybody)

Sorry, reward was the wrong word. My primary intention was to suggest a mechanism that didn't involve screen time, as many parents are sensitive to that.

Re: No Spanking, No Time-Out, No Problems

#443

Post by prawn »

GrinningFool wrote: post #386
prawn wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want to avoid promising TV/iPad as a reward, good alternatives are: "If you get in the bath, I'll go and choose a bath toy that you've never even played with before." (And then I find something random in the kitchen - ladle, colander, Tupperware, etc.) or "If you get dressed, I'll tell you something interesting about Mercury." (Or owls, or bullet trains or anything you can come up with.) Used the Mercury one w…

> or "If you get dressed, I'll tell you something interesting about Mercury." Gonna have to try this one - my son loves collecting facts. Thismay prove very helpful. Even if it turns out not - thanks for the idea, it's a good one.

I like that this tactic is educational and costs nothing, so you don't need to fall back to a treat. It becomes almost a form of currency within the house. My daughter is younger so in her case (for incentives or distracting her out of a tantrum) I'll talk about the neighbour's cat or birds doing things, etc.

Re: No Spanking, No Time-Out, No Problems

#444

Post by ivanhoe »

belorn wrote: post #380
ivanhoe wrote: post #366

This is possibly a good long term approach, but what to do when you need to put the situation under the control quickly, and kids just don't cooperate? I had such experience when my 4yo kid was at some point fascinated by kitchen stove, turning the gas knobs on/off. It's just something that you can't slowly teach him not to do, you need to draw the line right away, for his own safety. You can't reason with kid that s…

Kids often has a reason for doing things, including not cooperating. Where he trying to get attention? emulating? You can't reason with kids out of those. Trying to scare kids into compliance is rarely a effective method, and has some very nasty side effects. If long term approaches can't be used, child proof gas knobs exist.

Child proof knobs exist, yes, but there are million of other dangerous things all around us. In my eyes, trying to fix the world instead of teaching the kid to follow some basic rules is a completely wrong approach. It's like the Sleeping Beauty fairy tale, you just can't hide all the spindles in the kingdom, it never works.

Re: No Spanking, No Time-Out, No Problems

#445

Post by calinet6 »

mabcat wrote: post #256
calinet6 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't want never negative, or never stern to put a lighter touch on it—but many people, probably the audience of this article at large, simply don't know enough behavior theory to even know of the alternative. Save the negative reinforcement and punishment for situations where it's absolutely clear and necessary—that's the best way to keep it an effective tool anyway. Maybe 60% positive, and 10% negative, with th…

Note that negative reinforcement is reinforcement. It reinforces (i.e. encourages) a behaviour by stopping something unpleasant. e.g. your kid asks you nicely to turn off that dad music, you flip the stereo off, your kid feels better and learns to ask nicely. e.g.2. your kid screams that he hates carrots, you take the carrots off the plate, your kid feels better and learns to scream. When you say negative reinforceme…

Correct—I meant Positive Punishment (which is hard to remember, since it's decidedly not positive in the obvious sense).
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