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Uber Now Tracks Passengers’ Locations Even After They’re Dropped Off

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Re: Uber Now Tracks Passengers’ Locations Even After They’re Dropped Off

#441

Post by yladiz »

employee8000 wrote: post #303
mfrommil wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Calling bs on "uber as a company is very ethical" and "nothing nefarious is going on": Spying on a journalist: http://www.businessinsider.com/ubers-new-york-manager-invest... Tracking celebrities and sharing publicly: http://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2014/10/03/god-view-...

Both articles from 2014. Uber 2014 and Uber 2016 are different companies, probably 5x the number of employees and has matured substantially especially with employee conduct expectations. I would be shocked and angry if something like that happened today.

Really? A simple search found me an article from 2016 where a judge lambasted Uber's counsel about hiring a company who did unlicensed background investigation against someone who filed a lawsuit against Kalanick[1].

I've heard from you and multiple employees that you would be "shocked or angry" or believe "Uber is a good company and wouldn't have joined otherwise." But I find this hard to believe because if that was the case, then Uber would have lost most of their engineers in the beginning, pre-2014, when they were doing really shady stuff. Maybe you and your colleagues that use Hacker News that publicly commented on this thread would quit if something unethical happened, but words are empty while actions are not and I haven't heard of a case where a large group of Uber engineers or employees are protesting about their company's unethical nature. Color me unconvinced when I hear your words.

http://fortune.com/2016/07/25/judge-uber-background-check-la...

Re: Uber Now Tracks Passengers’ Locations Even After They’re Dropped Off

#442

Post by gourou »

yladiz wrote: post #34

I saw this earlier and had hopes that the update would just let me choose "While Using" in the app settings, like some other apps allow you even if they request access even while not using the app, but the settings only allow for "Always" or "Never" on iPhone. However, you can use Uber without allowing GPS, so it's not all or nothing. I'm a little disturbed that they need any information after I use Uber though. They…

> I'm also curious how this will bump up against EU privacy laws

Waze has location settings set to Always, so I guess they won't care again.

Re: Uber Now Tracks Passengers’ Locations Even After They’re Dropped Off

#443

Post by 0xmohit »

beefield wrote: post #293

Just wondering, are there virtualization/sandboxing apps/solutions that would let me create full emulated mobile environments into my phone and control all the sensor data that the environment is seeing?

Another possibility is to keep a dedicated phone for Uber. Turn it on only when needed. Not sure how practical it would be, though.

Re: Uber Now Tracks Passengers’ Locations Even After They’re Dropped Off

#444

Post by gourou »

aedron wrote: post #390
stephenr wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Didn't Uber also do tracking of user battery and establish that they can charge more, more reliably when the user has low battery?

That is deliciously evil.

There you go http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/new...

Re: Uber Now Tracks Passengers’ Locations Even After They’re Dropped Off

#445

Post by uberaway987 »

employee8000 wrote: post #234
yladiz wrote: post #34

I saw this earlier and had hopes that the update would just let me choose "While Using" in the app settings, like some other apps allow you even if they request access even while not using the app, but the settings only allow for "Always" or "Never" on iPhone. However, you can use Uber without allowing GPS, so it's not all or nothing. I'm a little disturbed that they need any information after I use Uber though. They…

Uber employee here. We were told the reason to track up to 5 mins after the trip is for fraud, ex if a driver doesn't end the trip when she is supposed to. and to figure out where the pick up spots for each address are. A large building may have multiple points where people get picked up or dropped off and knowing those points would be very useful for the drivers and riders. And just as a side note, take it with a fe…

Ex-Uber employee here. Ethics and values were roughly 80% of the reason why I chose to walk away from what was ostensibly my dream job after only a few months.

Being clear, my experience never saw misuse of customer info, just some legal but shady-as-shit ways they chose to do business.

EDIT: Sorry, my point being that, while I don't anticipate they'll abuse customer location tracking in the large, I would vehemently dispute the parent poster's supposition that everyone at Uber is super ethical. Rank and file engineer? Yeah, probably fine. Management? I expect TK and his lieutenant bros and bro-ettes will do whatever he can get away with.

Re: Uber Now Tracks Passengers’ Locations Even After They’re Dropped Off

#446

Post by ambicapter »

ohwello wrote: post #163
username223 wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm not going to try to defend our reputation [as a shady company]. Someone well above your pay grade probably should. As far as I can tell, Uber's business model is psychopathic levels of regulatory and psychological arbitrage.

What is "psychological arbitrage"?

Stuff like Uber figured out they could charge people more when their battery was low.

Re: Uber Now Tracks Passengers’ Locations Even After They’re Dropped Off

#447

Post by JonnieCache »

aedron wrote: post #390
stephenr wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Didn't Uber also do tracking of user battery and establish that they can charge more, more reliably when the user has low battery?

That is deliciously evil.

Apparently they have simply observed that users are more likely to pay the surge pricing when low on battery, and they claim not to factor it into the surge algorithm itself.

Makes sense to me, afaik the driver UI shows surge pricing based on an area and not individual users.

Re: Uber Now Tracks Passengers’ Locations Even After They’re Dropped Off

#448

Post by skuzye »

vmateixeira wrote: post #343
employee8000 wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uber employee here. We were told the reason to track up to 5 mins after the trip is for fraud, ex if a driver doesn't end the trip when she is supposed to. and to figure out where the pick up spots for each address are. A large building may have multiple points where people get picked up or dropped off and knowing those points would be very useful for the drivers and riders. And just as a side note, take it with a fe…

> but Uber as a company is very ethical If it wasn't for the apparent money laundry[1], drivers exploitation[2], cashing out on desperation[3], and tax evasion[4], maybe I could believe that. [1] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-08-25/uber-lose... (How can the company survive?) [1] https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/search?q=uber (Closing and reopening with different names in the UK. Apparently 4? times s…

[3] why does uber have to go around their prices algorithm because of an attack? I mean, that's how they operate: more demand = more expensive. They could use the marketing to do it but they don't really need to.

I don't understand why people expect corporations to work as a non-profit

Re: Uber Now Tracks Passengers’ Locations Even After They’re Dropped Off

#449

Post by sambe »

vmateixeira wrote: post #421
sambe wrote: post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the parent's point is that there's nothing hidden going on in addition to the known business model and standard company practices. You obviously disagree with that business model, and that's fine. For the millions of people who don't disagree with it, parent says: "we are not cheating or abusing you behind your back". Those links are also pretty weak: all speculation or opinion pieces about things that are ou…

Thank you for your comment, always good to read and learn from other points of view. I can agree with the weak links. Unfortunately didn't have much time to find better ones. Also, having The Sun as source in HN doesn't give it much of a credibility, but I'm sure there are more reliable sources out there [1]. I can also agree that this point can be made from a bit of a media hysteria. But a company whose business mod…

I think we have quite a fundamentally different view on morality but thanks for providing a thoughtful response. I disagree with most of it so not sure it's worth going through each part ;) Only point I feel the need to address is the general imbalance in assumptions.

In my experience, taxi drivers hide the meter, claim that hours are off-meter, claim there are special fees for certain journeys which don't exist, refuse to take rides they are obligated to take etc. Absolutely not rare at all in major European cities (and endemic in the developing world). I've lost count of how many times I've had it happen, attempted or seen other people targeted with it. This is mostly in major European cities. Formal complaints with the license number don't work ("we'll remind the driver of his obligations").

I don't find this especially unlikely behaviour - they are relatively unmonitored and unaccountable. They are distributed - no reputation as individuals. They deal with a lot of cash, they deal with people who don't know where they are or what the rules are. It's often one person's word against another's. I have plenty of first hand experience of misbehaviour, and I know regulatory body does little to address it.

I find it odd that you assume the best of them - you even say they cannot do anything because a regulation exists. Obviously this is untrue. Yet with Uber your view is borderline conspiracy (despite them also having regulations!). Do you think all currently-unprofitable startups are laundering money on a large scale? Where did these billions and billions of dirty money come from? Is YC itself laundering dirty money through startups? They changed their org structure a few times recently - are they hiding something with this? I've seen multiple YC people write about tax efficiency too!

Re: Uber Now Tracks Passengers’ Locations Even After They’re Dropped Off

#450

Post by imgabe »

Uber is somehow ridiculously bad with giving directions. Despite manually entering the address for a number of places, Uber insists on directing drivers into unmarked alleys instead of onto the street outside. You know, the actual street that's named in the freaking address. Instead of invading their customers' privacy they could start by just using the information they've been given.
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