Ask HN: Who is firing? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: Who is firing?

#441

Post by scribdjobs » Fri, Nov 04, 2016, 5:24 PM UTC

webmaven wrote: post #378

mgkimsal wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If they say anything that directly results in you being denied a job, it opens them up to lawsuits. This is the received wisdom, but not sure it happens. It might be something that happens at high levels, but it's uncommon for most people to even get a rejection letter or email in the first place, this notion of companies badmouthing you then them telling you that's why you were not hired is just... weird. Someone…

Here is how it happens: You're applying at a bunch of places, some of them being internal referrals from friends of yours. After a while you notice that all of your job applications are fizzling out, so, frustrated, you start asking for feedback (especially since a friend of yours kept getting rejected for talking about SOA instead of RESTful APIs). The answers you get aren't helpful, like "we just felt that you were…

Definitely make sure you're giving references who are reliable. But why would /anyone/ give a reference who would badmouth them?

Re: Ask HN: Who is firing?

#442

Post by scribdjobs » Fri, Nov 04, 2016, 5:26 PM UTC

webmaven wrote: post #378

mgkimsal wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If they say anything that directly results in you being denied a job, it opens them up to lawsuits. This is the received wisdom, but not sure it happens. It might be something that happens at high levels, but it's uncommon for most people to even get a rejection letter or email in the first place, this notion of companies badmouthing you then them telling you that's why you were not hired is just... weird. Someone…

Here is how it happens: You're applying at a bunch of places, some of them being internal referrals from friends of yours. After a while you notice that all of your job applications are fizzling out, so, frustrated, you start asking for feedback (especially since a friend of yours kept getting rejected for talking about SOA instead of RESTful APIs). The answers you get aren't helpful, like "we just felt that you were…

There's also "back channel" references. If there are some red flags but someone at the hiring company knows someone who worked with that person, they often reach out to get feedback from someone who worked with the candidate directly. Many companies do this during early stage interviews to see if they should continue. They're not official references by any means but pretty common in a small community like the Bay Area tech industry.

Re: Ask HN: Who is firing?

#443

Post by driverdan » Fri, Nov 04, 2016, 9:41 PM UTC

scribdjobs wrote: post #440

kyrra wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. If your former employer is smart, they won't say much beyond "yes, that person worked here" when contacted by any company that is looking to hire you. If they say anything that directly results in you being denied a job, it opens them up to lawsuits. (at least that's my understanding)

HR professional weighing in here :) You are correct. It's not just "if they're smart" it's "if they're complying with the law." Former employers are only legally allowed to confirm employment, salary (yes, really), and whether or not you're eligible for rehire.

How is it illegal? Source?

Do you mean they're opening themselves up to a lawsuit by saying anything else? If so, that's different than being illegal.

Re: Ask HN: Who is firing?

#444

Post by driverdan » Fri, Nov 04, 2016, 9:55 PM UTC

johnschrom wrote: post #296

FuNe wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is also glassdoor.com but it's not specially geared towards layoffs. But you can get a decent idea of how well a company does.

Glassdoor can be (and is) easily tainted by submitting fake positive reviews. They have a policy of not letting employers remove negative reviews, but that doesn't stop the company from flooding with "it's a fast-paced work environment, so some people clearly can't handle the heat in the kitchen" style "positive reviews" to reframe the legitimate negative ones. So, it can sometimes be difficult to get a proper read o…

You have to appropriately weight the reviews. Some types of reviews tend to be heavy on negative, some positive. Glassdoor is the type of site you have to focus more on the negative reviews than the positive.

Re: Ask HN: Who is firing?

#445

Post by wayn3 » Sat, Nov 05, 2016, 12:55 AM UTC

mgkimsal wrote: post #380

webmaven wrote: post #378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here is how it happens: You're applying at a bunch of places, some of them being internal referrals from friends of yours. After a while you notice that all of your job applications are fizzling out, so, frustrated, you start asking for feedback (especially since a friend of yours kept getting rejected for talking about SOA instead of RESTful APIs). The answers you get aren't helpful, like "we just felt that you were…

Cue people spouting how it's illegal for you to record a conversation.

lots of places in the US where recording a conversation is legal if one party of the conversation agrees to it (in this case, the party that does the recording)

Re: Ask HN: Who is firing?

#446

Post by wayn3 » Sat, Nov 05, 2016, 1:08 AM UTC

noescape wrote: post #394

loeg wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can true statements be disparagement?

This is a really good question. It seems a non-disparagement clause waives one's right to the first amendment. http://www.jaburgwilk.com/news-publications/what-is-a-non-di... Is this right?

you can not waive your first amendment rights. inalienable rights can't be alienated by yourself either.

Re: Ask HN: Who is firing?

#447

Post by ToPutItBluntly » Sat, Nov 05, 2016, 2:10 AM UTC

nannal wrote: post #233

wcummings wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're laid off, you can collect unemployment more easily.

immediately vs 3 months waiting period as far as I recall

For California, that is wrong. You can claim right away if you are fired. The employer can dispute it however they have to prove they tried to rectify the situation. The way the system works, the former employee has to dispute the unemployment rejection if the employer wants to try to claim it was a valid firing. So if you do get fired and there was not a pattern of behavior or something that you were warned about, then you simply appeal, state your case and the judge will almost certainly reject the employers false claim.

Unfortunately, I know this by experience. I was fired for some fishy business and it was obvious at the hearing. So always file for unemployment unless you are certain it will not be granted. Unemployment also qualifies you for health insurance through Covered California.

Re: Ask HN: Who is firing?

#448

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Nov 05, 2016, 3:51 AM UTC

debunn wrote: post #279

The Ontario Teachers' Pension Plan (OTPP) in Toronto, Ontario, Canada is currently laying off over 100+ (union, management and contractor) IT folks from the Enterprise Technology Solutions (IT operations) and Testing teams. All of the affected positions are being transferred to Tata Consultancy Services (TCS - India based offshoring service company), with those who are affected being mandated to knowledge transfer wi…

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: Who is firing?

#449

Post by liquidcool » Sat, Nov 05, 2016, 6:33 AM UTC

scribdjobs wrote: post #440

kyrra wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. If your former employer is smart, they won't say much beyond "yes, that person worked here" when contacted by any company that is looking to hire you. If they say anything that directly results in you being denied a job, it opens them up to lawsuits. (at least that's my understanding)

HR professional weighing in here :) You are correct. It's not just "if they're smart" it's "if they're complying with the law." Former employers are only legally allowed to confirm employment, salary (yes, really), and whether or not you're eligible for rehire.

What state? Employment law varies considerably from state to state, and I didn't think that's federal law (but IANAL).

Re: Ask HN: Who is firing?

#450

Post by candiodari » Mon, Nov 07, 2016, 2:43 PM UTC

scaryclam wrote: post #322

throw1988_9121 wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In your opinion what hurts morale more? One big round of layoff, or multiple smaller rounds? I've only seen the later happen, and personally I think I'd prefer the first one. If you know that after that large layoff round the rest of the company is safe, I'd venture that might be better for the morale of the remaining employees.

"Cut deep and cut once". Multiple rounds of layoffs is going to seed paranoia as well as hurt morale, so it's often better to over-do-it a little than end up with some of your best employees quitting because they're tired of wondering if they're next. I've seen both in action, and while the large layoff is really nasty, the company can immediately start to look forwards into rebuilding rather than sitting in the "was…

As an ex-cisco employee I can say with absolute certainty that I will view any large company which "cuts deep and cuts once" with deep suspicion and paranoia, and with bad memories.