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Is Facebook’s Massive Open Office Scaring Away Developers?

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Re: Is Facebook’s Massive Open Office Scaring Away Developers?

#441

Post by TeMPOraL »

endtime wrote: post #399
jrockway wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's clear that there's no one-size-fits-all solution to office spaces. I would personally love working in a dark basement with lots of walls and minimal conversation. Introvert/extrovert strikes again!

You? Introvert? I'm not so sure...

Hah, I can believe.

I consider myself an introvert too, even though a lot of people in my Hackerspace are utterly convinced I'm one of the more extroverted people they know. All because I can hold a conversation and like doing public talks every now and then.

The best description of introvert / extrovert thing I found is that comic strip - http://imgur.com/76HUN. Being an introvert, social interactions cost me energy instead of giving it, and that's why it's easy to deliver public talks when you feel like it, while at the same time avoiding people for most of the day.

Re: Is Facebook’s Massive Open Office Scaring Away Developers?

#442

Post by TeMPOraL »

st3v3r wrote: post #78
jowiar wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The efficiency gain with open offices is that, for high-growth companies -- or ones that are uncertain about their long-term size, it's pretty easy to shuffle furniture around to squeeze in more people. When walls and doors get involved, you're committing to "each person gets X sq. ft", for a company that may grow from x to 2x employees. That said, they're a disaster for productivity.

And that possibility is worth more than letting people get work done? I mean, if people don't get enough work done, you're never going to get to the point where you need to shuffle things around.

They'll get the work done, at the expense of their sanity.

Also, market inefficiency works here too, I think - it can take years before a company tanks. So productivity drop can go unnoticed forever (even when a company fails, there will be enough other factors to blame). Not to mention that marketing can successfully paper over all kinds of crap; mediocre is the standard in our industry.

Re: Is Facebook’s Massive Open Office Scaring Away Developers?

#443

Post by varjag »

new_hackers wrote: post #119
joezydeco wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because nobody is tapping you on the shoulder every 10 minutes asking "did you get the email I just sent out?". You also don't see long multi-person meetings in coffee shops (well, actually it does happen, and that's just as annoying). If you could train coworkers to respect the explicit and implicit signals that people give off when working and concentrating on something and use some fucking etiquette like keeping t…

This. Polite, business-like etiquette goes a long way to productivity.

Or walls.. it's like automation for etiquette.

Re: Is Facebook’s Massive Open Office Scaring Away Developers?

#444

Post by dx034 »

QuantumRoar wrote: post #51

It's also very easy to "accidentally" put more people into a very large room than it would be allowed by working regulations. There's at least one large Silicon Valley company who likes to do that. The working conditions can be quite miserable. You can call it an open office that amplifies communication in the team, so noone will notice that they're almost piling up vertically. And the problem is not just noise. Too…

I wouldn't use the term laying battery for a room where employees get salarys of (often) more than 5x the country's median to work there. I'd say no developer at Facebook was forced to work there, they all could easily get another job (maybe paid worse). It's purely their choice to work in this environment. I think the comparison with a laying battery isn't a really good fit here.

What's described here is still a "first world problem", some people seem to forget that.

Re: Is Facebook’s Massive Open Office Scaring Away Developers?

#445

Post by dx034 »

Illotus wrote: post #412
qohen wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is absolutely not a solution if you have tinnitus or a hearing damage or both. Arguendo, one could wear headphones without them being plugged in, strictly for signalling purposes, if it were necessary.

So how does that work agains overhearing conversations etc.?

Some studio headphones have excellent passive noise cancelling. They're designed to avoid sound leaking through so they basically shut out most noises even if they're plugged off. Look at DT 770 as an example.

Which also means you can use them on a very low level so that they don't cause hearing problems if used for long time.

Re: Is Facebook’s Massive Open Office Scaring Away Developers?

#446

Post by dx034 »

largote wrote: post #364
webvictim wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a total first world problem, but none of the headphones that FB provides in the vending machines are actually noise cancelling. There are Sennheiser HD 280s (huge over-ear headphones, quite comfortable, good sound quality and do deaden surrounding noise a little), Apple Earbuds (meh) and a seemingly easily-breakable Klipsch in-ear set that I can't remember the model number of. The headphones are very reasonable…

Active noise cancelling is far better at drowning out constant background noise than changing sounds like conversations.

Passive noise cancelling works well, a lot of studio headphones are designed for that. And they're often cheaper than active noise cancelling.

Re: Is Facebook’s Massive Open Office Scaring Away Developers?

#447

Post by effie »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #441
endtime wrote: post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You? Introvert? I'm not so sure...

Hah, I can believe. I consider myself an introvert too, even though a lot of people in my Hackerspace are utterly convinced I'm one of the more extroverted people they know. All because I can hold a conversation and like doing public talks every now and then. The best description of introvert / extrovert thing I found is that comic strip - http://imgur.com/76HUN . Being an introvert, social interactions cost me energ…

The strip is great, thanks.

Re: Is Facebook’s Massive Open Office Scaring Away Developers?

#448

Post by wwkeyboard »

cm2187 wrote: post #416
deckard1 wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> headphones and ear plugs are always offered This isn't a solution. Wearing headphones all day will lead to hearing loss. Especially if you have them turned up to any sort of level needed to block out even light conversation.

The in-ear headphones with a rubber membrane will be excellent to - isolate you from external noise - isolate your co workers from your music (a problem with most alternative designs of headphones) And if you listen to classical music, you are unlikely to suffer any hearing loss. And I find it to be perfect to focus on something in noisy environment (used them when I wanted to focus on something on a trading floor fo…

If any one else wants to know more about these google "in ear monitor". That's the trade name for the headphones musicians use to hear the mixed product while also protecting themselves from the amplified sound.

Re: Is Facebook’s Massive Open Office Scaring Away Developers?

#449

Post by wruza »

cm2187 wrote: post #416
deckard1 wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> headphones and ear plugs are always offered This isn't a solution. Wearing headphones all day will lead to hearing loss. Especially if you have them turned up to any sort of level needed to block out even light conversation.

The in-ear headphones with a rubber membrane will be excellent to - isolate you from external noise - isolate your co workers from your music (a problem with most alternative designs of headphones) And if you listen to classical music, you are unlikely to suffer any hearing loss. And I find it to be perfect to focus on something in noisy environment (used them when I wanted to focus on something on a trading floor fo…

Is that because classical music is natural/harmonic? I often hear that but google previews say something suspicious.

"classic music hearing loss" (sorry my phone browser copies google urls as plain text).

As for me, having something in ears is already disturbing, especially for a long time. In my office we came to mostly-silence mode without even negotiating on that. That culture was accepted naturally after quick inter-assimilation. People just respect silence and it is great.

Re: Is Facebook’s Massive Open Office Scaring Away Developers?

#450

Post by wruza »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #438
arsenelupin3 wrote: post #434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same for me. My productivity is divided at least by 2, not only because of the noise, but also because of the visual pollution, constantly seeing x or y going around. From my experience, situation is rendered worse when management people are in the mix: then you have to observe the subtle communication tricks of small power politics, which seem to favor those who think loudly. Not to mention non-IT guys are usually i…

Same here, and also my productivity gets divided by 4 whenever I'm aware of people walking or standing behind me. I've been like this since childhood - when I'm doing stuff on computers, I get distracted by the very presence of other people; doubly so, if they're able to see my screen.

When I worked at "analytics", i.e. solving issues right at client's place, we noticed that the people who can write code there are special. They have skill of resolving issues quickly under pressure, but have less skill of implementing hard things even at our noiseless office. I think it is a waste of resources to put hard-skilled group in uncomfortable conditions and vice-versa. We let some of them away from that because we had both hard tasks and quick tasks.
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