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July was the hottest month ever recorded, according to Nasa

nytimes.com

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Re: July was the hottest month ever recorded, according to Nasa

#441

Post by roc »

ldonley wrote: post #389
spdustin wrote: post #374

I've come to the (I feel) inevitable conclusion that we are already well and truly fucked. I will still do what I can to slow the inexorable slide into worldwide famine, war and anarchy, in the hopes that the majority of my children's lives will be made incrementally better, should they choose to remain on this planet (and, it is assumed, that they may actually have a choice, but there's no way I can know). We're on…

This is tangential to your point about remaining on this planet, but it is much easier to survive on our planet, polluted or not, than it is to setup shop on a different planet. I am fully in agreement with your view on how messed up things are on our planet due to human action. I just felt compelled to point out that any adjustments to be made on other planets can be done here. Can't breath on mars? Build a dome and…

The environmental conditions of a 'scorched' Earth aren't themselves that big a problem. The bigger problem is the disparity between how many people are on Earth now, and how many people we can support in those new environmental conditions.

As usual: humanity's primary challenge is humanity.

Re: July was the hottest month ever recorded, according to Nasa

#442

Post by RankingMember »

joshyeager wrote: post #247
CalRobert wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Live in a multi-unit building in a city where you can commute and do errands by walking or cycling (electric bikes are fine and get around that whole pedaling bit). Source your energy renewably and use little of it (80-300kwh per month isn't crazy depending on your climate). Don't buy much stuff. Eat very little meat. I mean, it doesn't take it to 0 but even if you DO want a comfortable life it doesn't mean living in…

All of that sounds reasonable, except "Live in a multi-unit building in a city". Being that close to that many people sounds like hell.

What about it sounds like hell, exactly? We're all different, but I think some of us underestimate our adaptability.

Re: July was the hottest month ever recorded, according to Nasa

#443

Post by mikeash »

monk_e_boy wrote: post #437
mikeash wrote: post #431

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the evidence for increased CO2 leading to increased biodiversity and agricultural yields?

Wasn't CO2 much higher in the past, hence why plants were so massive and could support big dino's.

Yes, CO2 was into the single-digit parts per thousand for much of the dinosaur era. I have no idea how that affected plant growth, but even if that's the cause, it seems tenuous to look at Mesozoic plant growth and assume modern agricultural crops will imitate them. Certainly far more tenuous than the evidence that climate change is causing damage and will cause more.

Re: July was the hottest month ever recorded, according to Nasa

#444

Post by jandrese »

aqme28 wrote: post #434
spdustin wrote: post #374

I've come to the (I feel) inevitable conclusion that we are already well and truly fucked. I will still do what I can to slow the inexorable slide into worldwide famine, war and anarchy, in the hopes that the majority of my children's lives will be made incrementally better, should they choose to remain on this planet (and, it is assumed, that they may actually have a choice, but there's no way I can know). We're on…

>Anyone who cooks can instinctively understand how "carryover heat" works My thermo professor was fond of re-branding "global warming" as "global heating." Right now we're just melting the ice cubes. If that heat-reservoir ever dries up, things will really start warming.

Intresting since there was an article a couple of days ago about how the arctic could be ice free in just a few years.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/climate-consensus-97...

Re: July was the hottest month ever recorded, according to Nasa

#445

Post by mikeash »

seiferteric wrote: post #440
mikeash wrote: post #430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the problem with your idea is that there's huge lag in the system. Even if all human CO2 production ceased today, there would still be huge changes for decades to come. A global catastrophe due to climate change would eventually put a stop to further climate change, but by then it'll be a little too late. It's a bit like arguing that you can't die from jumping off a bridge, because then you wouldn't be alive…

Not only that, but it's cumulative, all the CO2 from the past century+ is not going away very fast.

Right, that's a big part of the lag. If climate change causes civilization to collapse, it'll still take decades or centuries for the built-up CO2 to drop back to normal levels. Plus the fact that emissions won't stop right away just because a bunch of people start starving.

Re: July was the hottest month ever recorded, according to Nasa

#447

Post by HillRat »

mikeash wrote: post #431
James001 wrote: post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank god for negative feedback loops eh? I'm actually glad we have more CO2 in the atmosphere, because it will increase biodiversity and agricultural yields. I don't see any evidence that climate change is proceeding at a fast enough pace to cause damage.

What's the evidence for increased CO2 leading to increased biodiversity and agricultural yields?

Under conditions of increased CO2 availability, plants tend to decrease waster usage and sequester more carbon. Growth rates are faster, but require increased mineral availability. Unfortunately, nitrogen levels in plants decrease in high-atmospheric CO2 conditions, which leads to lower protein concentrations. As a result, consumption crops provide less energy and nutrition when consumed.

So, all in all, the downsides outweigh the upsides -- faster growth, lower nutrition, more aggressive soil depletion, and increased water runoff. On the bright side, carbon sequestration increases up to 40%, so the efficacy of planting forests as a sequestration measure will increase.

As for biodiversity -- well, dieoffs are already outpacing speciation. Unless you believe in abiogenesis, the trendline is moving sharply downward.

Re: July was the hottest month ever recorded, according to Nasa

#448

Post by jandrese »

fratlas wrote: post #63
codecamper wrote: post #47

Solar panels now sell for about 45c a watt out of China. Cost to create is around 36c / watt. This allows deployments such as in Chile & Dubai where the cost/kwh is 3 cents & below. This now cheaper than coal, without subsidy. Remove the subsidies that oil, gas & coal receive, and you will witness a new day. Only problem for solar right now is over supply caused by a sudden drop in demand. China reduced its subsidy a…

Also the power grid cannot accommodate in it's current form. Older substations struggle to do with the load fluctuations that are caused by solar panels, which is why they are discouraging them in Hawaii. A huge investment would be required to upgrade these substations. But yes, soon solar will be cheaper than coal.

I wonder if they're going to go in the direction of requiring those big home battery systems with every personal PV install? It would drive the install price up a fair bit, but could theoretically smooth out the demand on the power grid to avoid these problems. In fact it could be a better situation than we have today for a place like Hawaii. The battery backed solar homes would start needing grid power in the middle of the night, roughly the time demand is otherwise at its lowest.

Re: July was the hottest month ever recorded, according to Nasa

#449

Post by Zigurd »

The answer will probably be complex and unpleasant: We'll get serious climate disruptions before people get serious. We'll need to choose to deliberately forego energy sources, and energy is tightly linked to economic growth. The nuclear proponents will have to demonstrate that nuclear power can be economical and safe. If it is not economical, as it has not been so far, it is useless.

If we are past the point of preventing large scale calamity, geoengineering will probably have to be part of the solution. It's very risky, not least because it will lead to complacency if it works at all.

Re: July was the hottest month ever recorded, according to Nasa

#450

Post by RankingMember »

throwanem wrote: post #86
snarfy wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is another solution: less people.

Oh, by all means, don't stop there! Elucidate the enormities you're willing to encompass.

C'mon man don't throw a thesaurus at us like that.
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