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Spain Runs Out of Workers with Almost 5M Unemployed

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Re: Spain Runs Out of Workers with Almost 5M Unemployed

#441

Post by aphextron »

kpil wrote: post #390
logingone wrote: post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agile is barely different to how teams I worked on in the 90s operated, naturally, without trying to implement and enforce a new holy grail, chase the rainbow routine of machinic efficiency. I find it really is much ado about nothing, the emperors new clothes. An anal retentive formalising and trumpeting of common sense. I recall only one project which was waterfall, and the rest were used as soon as they were useful…

Sure. A lot of "Agile" is actually cargo-cult agile, used as a vehicle for self-promotion: The daily scrum, the sticky-notes or the Jira.board, and all that other ceremony. Typically retrofitted on top of a defunct process, with separate requirement analysts, "software architects" whatever that means, and a lot of control functions and processes inherited from the manufacturing industry. What makes that work is proba…

>cargo-cult agile

You just described my last job...

Re: Spain Runs Out of Workers with Almost 5M Unemployed

#442

Post by SixSigma »

patrickaljord wrote: post #439
SixSigma wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If people don't want to do a job, it is because it is not suitably remunerated. Using illegal labour instead should not be defended. It undercuts the position of the legal workers.

Paying people more for these jobs would make the end product way more expensive and make it hard to compete on the global market and make your country not competitive (what's happening here in France). Another side effect is that because the price of the end product gets more expensive, people will have to work more in order to buy said products or just avoid buying them.

The EU restricts agricultural imports, fixes prices and pays out massive subsidy for non-production via the CAP.

Perhaps market manipulation by the EU should be reassessed if the consequence is widespread and necessary use of illegal labour by some of the richest farmers in Europe.

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/atyourservice/en/displayFtu.ht...

Objectives

Article 39 TFEU sets out the specific objectives of the CAP:

1 to increase agricultural productivity by promoting technical progress and ensuring the optimum use of the factors of production, in particular labour;

2 to ensure a fair standard of living for farmers;

3 to stabilise markets;

4 to ensure the availability of supplies;

5 to ensure reasonable prices for consumers.

Re: Spain Runs Out of Workers with Almost 5M Unemployed

#443

Post by patrickaljord »

SixSigma wrote: post #442
patrickaljord wrote: post #439

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Paying people more for these jobs would make the end product way more expensive and make it hard to compete on the global market and make your country not competitive (what's happening here in France). Another side effect is that because the price of the end product gets more expensive, people will have to work more in order to buy said products or just avoid buying them.

The EU restricts agricultural imports, fixes prices and pays out massive subsidy for non-production via the CAP. Perhaps market manipulation by the EU should be reassessed if the consequence is widespread and necessary use of illegal labour by some of the richest farmers in Europe. http://www.europarl.europa.eu/atyourservice/en/displayFtu.ht... Objectives Article 39 TFEU sets out the specific objectives of the CAP: 1…

I totally agree that we should get rid of the CAP. Not going to argue on this one.

Re: Spain Runs Out of Workers with Almost 5M Unemployed

#444

Post by SEJeff »

konschubert wrote: post #34

> It takes at least eight months for an experienced software developer to earn an Agile qualification and they also need the ability to deal with senior executives, I am a bit confused by this sentence. How does one "ear an Agile qualification"? Why does it take eight months? What is "the ability to deal with senior executives"?

Agreed. I read Jeff Sutherland's Scrum book in about a week, but don't care for a paper certification. Most certificate companies (I'm looking at you CompTia and LPI) just care about selling their worthless paper certificates.

Re: Spain Runs Out of Workers with Almost 5M Unemployed

#445

Post by SEJeff »

joeyspn wrote: post #313

It's a catch 22 1 - Spanish Universities not in tune with the market reality, pouring out thousands of unemployed people into the market... 2 - Graduates living in a bubble... 99% not wanting to move their asses and thinking that the academic degree is all they need. Get a crappy job or move to another country. Let others create the jobs... 3 - Zero entrepreneurial spirit and risk aversion, making starting up a remot…

And this honestly seems to be common across much of Europe, as an American, why is this? I get it that America is not perfect (we're messed up in plenty of ways), but we do have a very entrepreneurial mindset as a society. Why is so much of Europe risk adverse?

It isn't that Europe doesn't have tech workers as good or better than the US, I work with a ton of brilliant Europeans . I just can't get why the Facebooks, the Googles, the Microsofts, the Apples, etc are so US centric. I'm clearly missing something obvious and am curious if you happen to understand why that is. Granted I've only been to maybe 6-7 countries in the EU and Berlin seemed to be the most startup friendly of the cities I've visited, but it still blows my mind why there aren't more successful startups from Europe.

Re: Spain Runs Out of Workers with Almost 5M Unemployed

#446

Post by selmat »

casta wrote: post #354
selmat wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cost of employee is always higher than salary. Bear in mind that employee have to pay (feed) himself, government, management, company revenue etc. It's simply not possible to create business value 10 000 € and get all of them into own pocket. At least not as standard employee.

True, but leaving health and pension in or out the gross salary makes a big difference if you want to compare gross salaries.

It depedns on definition of gross or super-gross salary. It may vary per country.

But...employee is always the only one who have to create value for customer who will give company his money. It doesnt matter who pay taxes (even health or social "insurance" are kind of taxes) value needs to be created and customer needs to be charged. Employer will not pay (long terrrm view) your bills and taxes from own pocket (dont consider early startup phases)

Re: Spain Runs Out of Workers with Almost 5M Unemployed

#447

Post by Gravityvi »

lacion wrote: post #391
fchollet wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Paris is much less expensive than the bay area, but more expensive than the average US city. In fact, it's barely less expensive than NYC, one of the most expensive US cities. Also, if you are working remotely you cannot command a bay area salary.

i been remote for the last 6 years working on 2 different bay area companies. on both occasions i commanded a Bay Area salary. still do. remote from Spain.

Hi, spanish dev here.

Currently working in London and looking at options after Brexit referendum.

How do you get paid by US companies if you don't live there? Do they hire you as freelancer?

Do you have to open a USD bank account in Spain or do you need one in the USA and then transfer the money over to your spanish account?

Thanks.

Re: Spain Runs Out of Workers with Almost 5M Unemployed

#448

Post by franciscop »

tluyben2 wrote: post #253
franciscop wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the problem I see is that the top people you might want would have no problem finding a similar position in a US company for 2x-3x that salary. So what how do you compete in the global economy with a 50+% salary cut? Do most of your developers only speak Spanish? Or do they have their roots firmly set in Spain (family/friends/relationships)?

> finding a similar position in a US company for 2x-3x that salary Remote or ? Because I don't think it's that easy to find them remote with (often) hampered English language skills and very different interviews than we have here in Europe. And moving to the US is also not that easy even if you have a job, partially because it's a life altering decision which moves you far away from family. For a lot of people that's…

> "with (often) hampered English"

I am sorry I was talking about the best people, and I haven't yet met anyone who is really great technically but has hampered English skills.

> "Remote or ?" / "And moving to the US is also not that easy even if you have a job, partially because it's a life altering decision which moves you far away from family. For a lot of people that's not worth the increase."

Totally agree, that is why some people choose to stay even if it's not the best for their career. The salary is definitely not the only reason to move out of Spain in Tech.

Re: Spain Runs Out of Workers with Almost 5M Unemployed

#449

Post by wojt_eu »

imjustsaying wrote: post #247
wojt_eu wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a 18-old Polander I was absolutely thrilled to work part-time for a US company. In hindsight, it was also much more valuable for me than academic education I pursued later. I would be offended if someone called this child labour and attempted to limit this opportunity.

RE: Oh, works with kids as well: you can buy many lifetime friends before they become teenagers >As a 18-old Polander ... I would be offended if someone called this child labour and attempted to limit this opportunity. "Before teenager" is 0-12 years old

Ah, I missed "before".
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