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Steam now accepts Bitcoin for purchases

blog.bitpay.com

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Re: Steam now accepts Bitcoin for purchases

#441

Post by bduerst »

evilmushroom wrote: post #350
Retra wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I don't have a credit card, and it feels futuristic to point my phone at the invoice and see it light up as "paid". Without typing in anything, without any risk of cc theft, without anyone in between. I think that is revolutionary, yes. You've basically just said you use your phone as a heavier, battery-powered credit card. You might as well be arguing that you think horses are a revolutionary new transportation med…

Horses also have some interesting auto-pilot features, not to mention they are green. Their fuel source generates oxygen during development and some of their byproducts can be used to enhance your garden!

Horses were self-driving long before your silly fiat cars.

Re: Steam now accepts Bitcoin for purchases

#442

Post by deepnet »

richardwhiuk wrote: post #439
deepnet wrote: post #398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thought provoking, I mostly agree with the following caveats: I see the complete transparency of Bitcoin as a strength, it is certainly an antidote to the opacity of offshore / shell companies & tax dodging. [2] & [3] they can't prevent payment using Bitcoins but one could be arrested after the fact and detained without computer access. [3] This is why I said civil disobedience for [3]. Bitcoins are a public act. Nat…

No, crypto is crypto-anarchy does mean cryptography: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crypto-anarchism 'The "crypto" in crypto-anarchism should not be confused with the use of the prefix "crypto-" to indicate an ideology or system with an intentionally concealed or obfuscated "true nature". For example, some would use the term "crypto-fascist" to describe an individual or organization that holds fascist views and subscr…

Yes you are correct, I was wrong, I had confused the term with Anarcho-syndicalism, thanks for putting me on the right track.

Re: Steam now accepts Bitcoin for purchases

#443

Post by EdHominem »

lmm wrote: post #440
EdHominem wrote: post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That'd be a proof-of-stake coin. They exist. You're thinking of in proportion to their percentage of the network mining power. Which for a pool (cartel?) can be sizable. But that it is more akin to controlling the post-office than controlling the bank. People can be inconvenienced but not stolen from (except in certain cases with confederates of the post-master) and those can be guarded against more easily than avoid…

> those can be guarded against more easily than avoiding phishing email from "your bank". What risk measure are you using there, and what ease measure? E.g. waiting for 6 blocks for transactions to settle (best practice AIUI) would be a serious inconvenience when e.g. paying at a restaurant.

You expect a restaurant customer to perform a double-spend for their dinner bill? One confirmation is enough for, roughly, anything worth less than the block reward. When you sell luxury cars you may want to wait a bit longer.

Mostly, attacks on the protocol itself (instead of your android wallet, etc) require significant mining effort and usually waste it effort by making the block incompatible with the global network (the double spend). When the cost of the item, divided by the number of blocks the merchant waits, is greater than the block reward divided by your likelihood of finding enough consecutive blocks to cheat - it may be worth it to try.

Specifically for food - you're supposed to mention coupons and traveller's cheques at the start of the meal, giving the restaurant time to prepare. The confirmation time (one, or maybe two blocks) could be handled the same way - pay a bit early.

Re: Steam now accepts Bitcoin for purchases

#444

Post by lmm »

EdHominem wrote: post #443
lmm wrote: post #440

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> those can be guarded against more easily than avoiding phishing email from "your bank". What risk measure are you using there, and what ease measure? E.g. waiting for 6 blocks for transactions to settle (best practice AIUI) would be a serious inconvenience when e.g. paying at a restaurant.

You expect a restaurant customer to perform a double-spend for their dinner bill? One confirmation is enough for, roughly, anything worth less than the block reward. When you sell luxury cars you may want to wait a bit longer. Mostly, attacks on the protocol itself (instead of your android wallet, etc) require significant mining effort and usually waste it effort by making the block incompatible with the global netwo…

One or two blocks is 10 or 20 minutes, no? That's not going to make you popular. Maybe bitcoin can replace coupons and travellers' cheques, but that's not a very big market compared to cash and cards.

Re: Steam now accepts Bitcoin for purchases

#445

Post by EdHominem »

lmm wrote: post #444
EdHominem wrote: post #443

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You expect a restaurant customer to perform a double-spend for their dinner bill? One confirmation is enough for, roughly, anything worth less than the block reward. When you sell luxury cars you may want to wait a bit longer. Mostly, attacks on the protocol itself (instead of your android wallet, etc) require significant mining effort and usually waste it effort by making the block incompatible with the global netwo…

One or two blocks is 10 or 20 minutes, no? That's not going to make you popular. Maybe bitcoin can replace coupons and travellers' cheques, but that's not a very big market compared to cash and cards.

You say that like I failed my sales pitch. The restaurant was your example, and I'm not trying to get you to use Bitcoin.

fwiw, I have paid btc in a restaurant and it was seamless because they didn't bother waiting for any confirmations because they had our faces on camera... Fraud is fraud so they weren't worried. Flash the QR, scan the QR, check the numbers, hit okay, done. 20s for me, and maybe another 20s for the merchant.

But yeah, some stores don't take credit, some don't take cash. All depends on their workflow if seconds matter.

Re: Steam now accepts Bitcoin for purchases

#446

Post by lmm »

EdHominem wrote: post #445
lmm wrote: post #444

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One or two blocks is 10 or 20 minutes, no? That's not going to make you popular. Maybe bitcoin can replace coupons and travellers' cheques, but that's not a very big market compared to cash and cards.

You say that like I failed my sales pitch. The restaurant was your example, and I'm not trying to get you to use Bitcoin. fwiw, I have paid btc in a restaurant and it was seamless because they didn't bother waiting for any confirmations because they had our faces on camera... Fraud is fraud so they weren't worried. Flash the QR, scan the QR, check the numbers, hit okay, done. 20s for me, and maybe another 20s for the…

> You say that like I failed my sales pitch. The restaurant was your example, and I'm not trying to get you to use Bitcoin.

I object to the claim that it's easier to guard against a hostile bitcoin network than against phishing emails. It may be possible to use bitcoin safely for some use cases, but it's more effort than avoiding phishing emails.

Re: Steam now accepts Bitcoin for purchases

#447

Post by EdHominem »

lmm wrote: post #446
EdHominem wrote: post #445

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You say that like I failed my sales pitch. The restaurant was your example, and I'm not trying to get you to use Bitcoin. fwiw, I have paid btc in a restaurant and it was seamless because they didn't bother waiting for any confirmations because they had our faces on camera... Fraud is fraud so they weren't worried. Flash the QR, scan the QR, check the numbers, hit okay, done. 20s for me, and maybe another 20s for the…

> You say that like I failed my sales pitch. The restaurant was your example, and I'm not trying to get you to use Bitcoin. I object to the claim that it's easier to guard against a hostile bitcoin network than against phishing emails. It may be possible to use bitcoin safely for some use cases, but it's more effort than avoiding phishing emails.

If you wait for a single confirmation you're almost 100% safe, and this is a feature that almost every wallet has. They alert when a transaction to an address of yours has been confirmed some number of times. If you aren't selling diamonds or fancy cars, online to anonymous people, the right number of confirmations is one.

For a server, it's just like another card reader with a different UI, it's not some high-tech payment box they need a PhD to operate.

(Spear-)Phishing emails often include your boss's real info, fairly convincing text, proper formatting, etc... They've tricked trained CFOs out of millions.

Using BTC is like using Instagram, there's a ton of complexity behind the scenes but if you aren't a systems integrator it's essentially seamless.

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