Earlier quoted context omitted.
Gotta say, this is incredibly discouraging for someone like me.
Naw - places that hire like that are myopic are shitty and doomed, so you don't want to work there anyway. If you're a good coder and not a complete dick, you can build a nice career for yourself.
How to Pass a Programming Interview
441–450 of 570 posts
Re: How to Pass a Programming Interview
#442Earlier quoted context omitted.
I personally also prefer take-home projects over being grilled on my ability to solve obscure algorithms problems under pressure. However, this second route also comes with a number of issues. The most annoying of which in my experience is the amount of time investment each interview requires from the candidate. At least in the traditional technical interview, interviewers and candidates tend to be roughly equally in…
Take-home projects can be a double edged sword... for a given project that is estimated to take 4 hrs, i will typically spend about 16 hours on it. working straight through the night, chugging coffee and/or beer. I work by banging out an ugly PoC, and then I refine it drastically over several iterations. My final versions are award-worthy, but the early ones are really bad and sloppy. I am the type that is great at s…
Re: How to Pass a Programming Interview
#443Earlier quoted context omitted.
"Or had to find the O(x^n) and replace it with O(x^2)" The other thing that really seals the deal for me as an inferior interview question is that you don't need to have a clue what O(x^n) is to wrap some code in a simple time call, see that the code you think ought to run in microseconds is running in seconds, by visual inspection notice stupid nested loops, and fix it. Self-taught programmers may not be able to say…
It demonstrates that you have a passing familiarity with probably _the_ most fundamental tool of the trade.
Re: How to Pass a Programming Interview
#444Earlier quoted context omitted.
> there's very little left to discourage interviewers from issuing ridiculously time-consuming projects There's also no disincentive for interviewees to spend an unreasonable amount of time on the project. So the test is biased against employed people and/or people with kids. This can be easily countered though. Send out the assignment at a predetermined, convenient time and require it be returned an hour or two late…
> There's also no disincentive for interviewees to spend an unreasonable amount of time on the project. I don't see any problem with this, as an interviewer. The take-home is supposed to be an example of the work the candidate does, they should take however long to do it. I want to see the best-case scenario of the code they write (given the problem at hand, etc, of course). The entire idea is removing the time press…
The issue for the interviewer is missing out on good potential hires because your selection process is biased against people with little free time.
I have a family and I'm doing part-time study in the evenings. If I'm looking for a new job, then I can probably find time for 1 exercise a fortnight. If one company tells me they have a "4 hour assignment" and the other a "1 hour", then I'm far more likely to do the 1 hour exercise and pass on the long one.
And if I do the 1 hour test, I'd expect to be assessed accordingly. If you're comparing one person's output after 1 hour with another who actually spent 5 hours on it, then you will be more inclined to hire the person that spent longer on the project, even though that's not really going to corelate with on the job performance.
Re: How to Pass a Programming Interview
#445Being a good programmer has a surprisingly small role in passing programming interviews. And that just says it all, doesn't it? I agree that interviews should test candidates on certain basic skills, including (time/space) complexity analysis. But do you really learn anything by asking the candidate if they can recite the time complexity of a moving window average algorithm (as I was asked to do by an interviewer yes…
> including (time/space) complexity analysis. I think this is one of the most inane things to be asked during an interview. personally, I've never found myself in a situation where I truly needed to choose between a vector/map/list/hashmap. Or had to find the O(x^n) and replace it with O(x^2) Obviously it depends on the application, but many jobs are simply maintenance coding: find bug, fix bug, test fix. Often times…
Re: How to Pass a Programming Interview
#446Being a good programmer has a surprisingly small role in passing programming interviews. And that just says it all, doesn't it? I agree that interviews should test candidates on certain basic skills, including (time/space) complexity analysis. But do you really learn anything by asking the candidate if they can recite the time complexity of a moving window average algorithm (as I was asked to do by an interviewer yes…
Coding interviews are very stressful, and churn through a lot of really awesome potential hires. I imagine there are tons of false negatives, but it's nearly impossible for a terrible programmer to get through a gauntlet of programming interviews. However, I agree. They don't give a full picture of a developer's abilities. As a developer, I prefer take-home projects. As an interviewer, I prefer a few coding interview…
I imagine there are tons of false negatives, but it's nearly impossible for
a terrible programmer to get through a gauntlet of programming interviews.
Depends on what you mean by "terrible", I suppose. Yes, coding interviews do a good job at screening out the bozos who just can't program, period. The ones who don't understand the difference between a for loop and a while loop, or the ones who can't handle boolean logic.But I've found that even once you get past the outright bozos, there are quite a few programmers who can program quick one-off things, but have no sense of design or maintainability. They can deliver functionality, but deliver in a way that piles on technical debt and damages the long term health of the codebase. I think the traditional technical interview format ironically encourages this sort of behavior, by encouraging applicants to focus on narrowly solving the problem at hand, as quickly as possible, both in terms of machine time and programmer time, even if that means the code is an unmaintainable mess in the long run.
Put another way, think back to the last time you had to do any sort of whiteboard coding, as part of an interview. Are you proud of the code that you wrote? Would that code pass code review at your current position? If so, then congratulations. You're a better programmer than I. The code I've written on whiteboards has been pretty uniformly terrible. Sure, it met the correct Big-O complexity requirements, and it was correct, insofar as it produced the correct output, given correct input. But there was no error handling. Variable names were single letters. The functionality wasn't broken up into logical functions because writing additional function headers takes more time, and my handwriting is messy enough when I'm not rushing. All in all, it's code that you'd see in a prototype, or a programming contest entry, not a robust system that's usable by customers.
Lately, I've seen more and more such code being produced by new graduates not only in coding interviews, but also as part of day-to-day programming. There's an incipient attitude of, "Well this code would pass in an interview, so it's production ready." I find it deeply troubling, and my concern is that programming interviews are setting up incentives by which this sort of code becomes, if not normal, then certainly more accepted than it was in the past.
This is why I advocate so heavily for take-home projects. When a candidate submits a take-home project, you can be assured that they had enough time to design and code the assignment in a maintainable way. You can see whether they added unit tests. You can see whether they split the code logically into objects and functions, or whether they smushed everything into a 500-line main(). I accept that take-home assignments aren't as scalable, either from the interviewee side or the interviewer side, but I do worry about the long term effects on norms that programming interviews are having.
EDIT: grammar
Re: How to Pass a Programming Interview
#447Earlier quoted context omitted.
Coding interviews are very stressful, and churn through a lot of really awesome potential hires. I imagine there are tons of false negatives, but it's nearly impossible for a terrible programmer to get through a gauntlet of programming interviews. However, I agree. They don't give a full picture of a developer's abilities. As a developer, I prefer take-home projects. As an interviewer, I prefer a few coding interview…
I have not tried it. But in my next business venture, I plan to actually do peer programming with the candidate. This is will allow members of my team (or myself) to get to know the candidate, evaluate the 'wave lengths', and how effective he/she is at finding patterns on the internet/books -- rather than thinking things up. It also demonstrates to the candidate commitment on our side, and it naturally forces us to f…
I have not tried it. But in my next business venture, I plan to actually do
peer programming with the candidate.
As a candidate, I can highly recommend peer programming. One of the greatest interview experiences I had was interviewing with a local shop where the employee and I reimplemented a Set class using TDD and pair programming. The employee sat at the keyboard, so I didn't have to deal with not knowing keyboard shortcuts or the unfamiliar operating system (OSX), but he was very careful to only write the code that I asked him to write, and to let me make my own mistakes.It was one of the most enjoyable, and, dare I say it, relaxing interview experiences I've had. Though I didn't get an offer, I wouldn't hesitate to recommend that company to any of my peers who're looking to make a change. Also, like you said, it was a second tier screen; after an initial screen consisting of a more traditional phone interview where I had to write some Javascript.
Re: How to Pass a Programming Interview
#448Earlier quoted context omitted.
> including (time/space) complexity analysis. I think this is one of the most inane things to be asked during an interview. personally, I've never found myself in a situation where I truly needed to choose between a vector/map/list/hashmap. Or had to find the O(x^n) and replace it with O(x^2) Obviously it depends on the application, but many jobs are simply maintenance coding: find bug, fix bug, test fix. Often times…
Honestly, I consider an instinct for complexity analysis the most important thing I learned in school, and the thing that I've gotten the most use out of. I don't know what case you're making here: are you saying that high-level architecture is so hard that choosing a map or a hashmap should be a coinflip, or the one you see first? Having had some criteria for making the choice makes my life a lot better when everybo…
Re: How to Pass a Programming Interview
#449Being a good programmer has a surprisingly small role in passing programming interviews. And that just says it all, doesn't it? I agree that interviews should test candidates on certain basic skills, including (time/space) complexity analysis. But do you really learn anything by asking the candidate if they can recite the time complexity of a moving window average algorithm (as I was asked to do by an interviewer yes…
Re: How to Pass a Programming Interview
#450Being a good programmer has a surprisingly small role in passing programming interviews. And that just says it all, doesn't it? I agree that interviews should test candidates on certain basic skills, including (time/space) complexity analysis. But do you really learn anything by asking the candidate if they can recite the time complexity of a moving window average algorithm (as I was asked to do by an interviewer yes…
> I much prefer "homework" projects I helped a group within my organization with their hiring process recently, and we had pretty good success with assigning a short "take-home" exercise, vs. trying to haze them with a programming problem over a google hangout interview. A problem focusing on a small part of what that group does, but scoped to be doable with 1-2 hours of work.