So if JetBrains goes bankrupt and the license servers go down then we all have a month to sort out a new IDE
How JetBrains Lost Years of Customer Loyalty in Just a Few Hours
441–450 of 507 posts
Re: How JetBrains Lost Years of Customer Loyalty in Just a Few Hours
#442I really love JetBrains software and use IntelliJ daily, and this initially had me really annoyed.
However, after looking at the detail, I'm intrigued. I have a personal IntelliJ license that's a couple versions old, and an even older AppCode license. For $149/year I can get the latest of all of the products. Do I need them all? Maybe not, but I want them!
I for one will strongly consider that subscription, even if I wish I still had the option to buy a perpetual license.
Re: How JetBrains Lost Years of Customer Loyalty in Just a Few Hours
#443I would like to encourage everybody that does not like the new licensing scheme of JetBrains to band together and produce either an open source product that is as polished so it can be used for free or, alternatively to take this apparently huge business opportunity and run with it. I never quite understood what makes people that make 100's of thousands of dollars per year so cheap that they would balk at paying a fe…
>I never quite understood what makes people that make 100's of thousands of dollars per year so cheap that they would balk at paying a few hundred $ for their main tool of choice.
You make an assumption that we developers make hundreds of thousands of dollars a year. That may be true in some places and for some fortunate people but it's not true everywhere.
Besides, the main complaint I see here is that the subscription model makes all your code assets hostage to JetBrains' fortunes, since the moment they go out of existence all the software you depend on stops working. People are not balking at the thought of paying a few hundred dollars for a tool - they are, in fact, asking for the opportunity to do just that.
Re: How JetBrains Lost Years of Customer Loyalty in Just a Few Hours
#444Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Their first response was that it's cheaper than before. Except it's not. Did they think I wouldn't actually go look at the prices? Uh - their "everything" price is $20/month = $240/year (or $200 for the annual plan) (All renewal at current license price) PHPStorm - $129 PyCharm - $99 ReSharper Ultimate - $600 (no renewal price) If I were to purchase that with their old license it would cost me $828, with the new pl…
Yeah, Eclipse has the Linux GUI curse. Linux users expect the GUI to be unusable so they split into the camps who (i) think Eclipse is the bee's knees or (ii) use vi. The difference between IntelliJ and Eclipse is like night and day -- Eclipse fans think the plug-in feature is great but install one too many plugins and your Eclipse will get sick with pluginitis.
I recently had to use Eclipse again, after 5+ years of Emacs mostly coding sessions, and boy it was tough. I kept thinking it's just one IDE, and others are better, thinking about IntelliJ. Heh.
ps: people, take a look at Emacs, it really is nice, and only needs 8MB cough
Re: How JetBrains Lost Years of Customer Loyalty in Just a Few Hours
#445[deleted]
Re: How JetBrains Lost Years of Customer Loyalty in Just a Few Hours
#446Earlier quoted context omitted.
Ha, yes. As a daily user of Creative Suite, the 'cloud' benefits are fairly feeble. The file hosting is handy, but we already use Dropbox and Google Drive. The other features seem like they could have been incorporated into the desktop apps but were pulled into the cloud to make it appear more worthwhile. I can see how moving shrink-wrap software to a subscription can be good for the company – reliable income streams…
> before the whole thing crumbles. Are there any alternatives to adobe on the horizon? I'm asking because I'd like to know. All I know of is affinity designer and pixelmator.
The field is wide open at the moment. It's an interesting time - there hasn't been so many options in a while.
For Photoshop alternatives there's Pixelmator, Acorn and Affinity Photo.
For Illustrator there's Sketch, iDraw and Affinity Designer.
All we need now is a good InDesign alternative.
Re: How JetBrains Lost Years of Customer Loyalty in Just a Few Hours
#447Earlier quoted context omitted.
You are confusing matters and overstating productivity factors. Editors, yes, including vim, have nearly zero impact on the timeline for any non-trivial project. The time devoted to all things outside of typing code dwarfs any gains had by counting keystrokes with vim. It's an illusion of the first order. Now, good tools, such as the JetBrains tools can have an impact that has little to do with productivity. We do ha…
rebootthesystem, you have simultaneously some of the best and worst views on productivity I have ever heard. You seem to understand human factors around burnout and work quite well, but completely misunderstand an engineer's relationship with his or her tools. It is precisely because we are not unskilled factory workers that we can and should each individualize and tune our tools to our liking. I would hope that you…
I don't forbid anything at all. All decisions are made as a team. And all have to be justified. I own the company. I am not the king. Yet, with this a given I have yet to run into a single engineer who's suggested we use vim extensivey. It does see use while supporting servers and that's about it.
Don't get me wrong, a nice IDE can be a pleasure to use. Does it make a significance difference in ROI or project timelines? Not at all. If we are working on an IMU for an aerospace project the time spent on the editor is almost a rounding error.
I think a lot of people on HN view the world through web development lenses. That is most certainly not how the rest of the engineering world works. For example, when doing muliti-GHz PCB design you can quite literally blow WEEKS of work if you make a mistake. Weeks. And so the idea of fretting over keystrokes per second or amazing refactoring tools --in that context-- is nothing less than laughable. And that's why, in my world, nobody has ever come up and said "you know, if we took a couple of weeks to get good at vim we could rock this thing". It hasn't come-up because, in our context, like I said, code entry is a rounding error. Nobody cares because it does not matter.
Re: How JetBrains Lost Years of Customer Loyalty in Just a Few Hours
#448Earlier quoted context omitted.
He is specifically refuting your argument that the new model isn't cheaper than the old model.
And I'm accepting that but pointing out that it still applies to many.
Yes you are but you are providing no concrete examples of that. I'm interested to hear your examples?
Re: How JetBrains Lost Years of Customer Loyalty in Just a Few Hours
#449Earlier quoted context omitted.
You are confusing matters and overstating productivity factors. Editors, yes, including vim, have nearly zero impact on the timeline for any non-trivial project. The time devoted to all things outside of typing code dwarfs any gains had by counting keystrokes with vim. It's an illusion of the first order. Now, good tools, such as the JetBrains tools can have an impact that has little to do with productivity. We do ha…
> The time devoted to all things outside of typing code dwarfs any gains had by counting keystrokes with vim. It's an illusion of the first order. Editors are, or should be, the sole tool necessary to sculpt a system. Using poor languages, yes, there's a lot of ritual outside of coding which is necessary. With powerful languages, the design is the code and the code is the design and it all lives within an editor. The…
> Editors are, or should be, the sole tool necessary to sculpt a system.
Absolutely not true. My guess is you are a web developer.
I am not going to spar with you. Engineering is a world that goes way beyond web development. I urge you to consider there's far more out there than what you might have been exposed to. To think that everything starts and ends with a text editor is a bit myopic.
Re: How JetBrains Lost Years of Customer Loyalty in Just a Few Hours
#450Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Because I have exactly zero interest in deviating from what I should be focusing on (my business, my product, my clients, my revenue stream) to go dork around with a text/code editor. You can improve your productivity (i.e., increase your revenue) by improving your tools. A blacksmith makes his tools; a developer should be want to extend his environment. > unless you are a huge company that can afford to lose clock…
No idea why this is being downvoted. If you ask me, it's irresponsible not to invest in your tools and productivity. If you don't, you're wasting your employer's time and money. A bit of time "dorking around" in Vim will pay huge dividends over time. Give it a shot. Open up `vimtutor`. It's easier than you think!
Interesting. You see, to me you are wasting our time and money if you do not realize that the time devoted to code entry is insignificant when compared to other aspects of a non-trivial project. It's like putting $300 racing tires on a Toyota Sienna minivan. You can quote all kinds of skid-pad numbers and amazing high speed capabilities, yet you'd be focusing on the wrong problem. You can go much faster by getting a better car with less expensive tires.
I know a good percentage of HN members are focused around web development. Please stop for a moment to understand there's much more to software engineering than the web. Much more. Your view of reality is decidedly skewed.
I'll give you an example. We've been working on a system that has required over a year of real R&D and thousands of man-hours before we understood how to solve the problem. The software development phase will take about a month or two. And a good chunk of that is debugging, reevaluating assumptions and testing. Nobody here cares one bit about what we use to enter the code (in various languages) comprising this system. It isn't a factor.