Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: Why the Microsoft hate?

news.ycombinator.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

431–440 of 556 posts

Re: Ask HN: Why the Microsoft hate?

#431

Post by quantumhobbit »

For developers it's open standards and such, but for typical users it is a history of bad experiences.

Microsoft had the great misfortune of being the dominate computing platform in the 90's and early 00's. Computers just weren't as reliable or easy to use back then. Maybe Microsoft could have made Windows better back then, maybe not. Mac System 7/8/9 was by all accounts less reliable than windows and anything 'nix would have been unthinkable to a typical user.

So just about everyone has had a crapware infested computer running something like windows ME or Vista that crashed every few hours. For many people, the first non-widows computer they used was an android or iOS phone. Therefore the association is Microsoft == crappy/unreliable vs Apple/Google == easy to use/dependable. OEMs in a race to the bottom on hardware don't help Microsoft at all.

I actually think windows 7 was a rock solid OS and Windows 8 is good once you get over the awkward interface changes. But Microsoft's brand image has been permanently damaged.

Re: Ask HN: Why the Microsoft hate?

#432

Post by puma1 »

xutopia wrote: post #421

Why the Microsoft hate? I was here in the browser war of the 90s. I was present when it destroyed Wordperfect. I was present when it trampled on Netscape and others. Now I see what they're doing with Internet Explorer and I'm thinking it's just more of the same. They're only not in a position to assert themselves as they used to.

What do you think about Apple's company practices? There isn't a more greedier company right now. Yet they are viewed as magical. Please.

Re: Ask HN: Why the Microsoft hate?

#434

Post by drharris »

jeremiep wrote: post #409
MortenK wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Monster.com job listings in the US by keyword: .NET - 1000+ positions Java - 1000+ positions PHP - 454 positions Python - 295 positions Ruby - 280 positions Node.js - 55 positions Lisp, Haskell, Scheme - 0 positions

Quantity is not the same as Quality. I expect to find a larger percentage of competent programmers for the python/ruby jobs than for the .net/java jobs. Every job I've had so far seems to prove this true.

Personal examples hardly prove a point, but I'm a seasoned, nearly exclusive (11yr) .NET developer and I can probably code the pants off the average ruby/python developer off the street. As can many of my coworkers. See, we use this old-school knowledge of design patterns, MVC, and SOA instead of worrying about whether our code is clever enough. Do you sometimes have to interview people who learned a few buzzwords and somehow passed an MSCD test but don't understand what encapsulation means? Yes. Just like you get people in the Ruby world who opened a console and typed in "rails new" and now they have a new resume topic.

Competent programmers exist in all types of jobs with all types of platforms. In fact, I would argue that those of us who don't jump to every new fad language that comes out may likely be more productive by default. Instead of worrying about what frameworks we're going to use to supplement our Node+Json+Rails+Bootstrap+Coffeescript+blergh security nightmare, we just start coding.

Re: Ask HN: Why the Microsoft hate?

#435

Post by devrelm »

Encosia wrote: post #210
jeswin wrote: post #163

I'll tell you the story of my friend Greg. Greg has been a believer in Microsoft. He went to all the Tech-Ed conferences, attended every MSDN event he could. Conferences are grand stages that leave an impression. He drank all the cool-aid that was served at these conferences. Things were really good early on, this was the last decade. The computing scene at that time revolved around Microsoft like the many moons of J…

If Greg is a real person, he's in great shape job-wise. There's incredible demand for .NET developers right now. Not so much in the West Coast startup world, but nearly everywhere in the corporate world.

This is my problem right now. I recently quit my corporate job doing asp.net mvc for the financial industry in NYC. I'd like to move into a startup on the west coast, but I'm having trouble finding anything that uses asp.net mvc. I'm applying to non-.net shops too, but I get the feeling that they throw my resume in the trash as soon as they notice the lack of node.js/ruby/python/java experience.

Re: Ask HN: Why the Microsoft hate?

#436

Post by jiyannwei »

I use a PC with Windows 7. I have a Macbook but I'm not crazy about the Office apps on Macbook so use the PC most of the time.

This past week, I spilled water on the PC and took it into the shop. I picked-up a back-up ASUS, loaded with Win 8.

This was the beginning of my nightmare.

1. Win 8 was just terrible. It took me way too long to figure out how to perform simple actions. Win 8 is Frankenstien - it is Microsoft's attempt to unify the computing experience by (a) copying numerous OS UI elements; (b) slapping a tablet version of their operating system on top of a desktop version; (c) burying elements behind keyboard shortcuts and some gaudy, horrible startup screen that advertises other Microsoft products.

In a nutshell, they have built the perfect operating system for a schizophrenic blind person.

After a day of cursing out Microsoft while trying to figure out basic things (like getting to the "start" menu), I tried installing Office, the entire reason I still use a PC. I rebooted the PC and voila - Win 8 told me it couldn't start Win 8 and I had to revert to an earlier point in time.

I tried doing that and after another hour, Win 8 told me it couldn't do that either and I had to reinstall Win 8.

I put the laptop back in its box and returned it and just started learning how to use Office on Mac.

This is why Microsoft is just pathetic. I feel pathetic for giving Microsoft a chance. This isn't hyperbole: Windows 8 is really a complete and utter failure.

Re: Ask HN: Why the Microsoft hate?

#437

Post by credo »

sillysaurus2 wrote: post #291
credo wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ironically, this submission is at #8 even though it has 290 points and was submitted just 4 hours ago Meanwhile the #2 item was submitted 5 hours and it only has 90 points. IMO anyone who observes HN reaction to any Microsoft topic (that isn't a virulently anti-Microsoft submission) knows that these topics will get pushed down to the back pages. In some cases, the reason may be flagging, in other cases, it may be the…

Ironically, this submission is at #8 even though it has 290 points and was submitted just 4 hours ago This is a selfpost, and selfposts are automatically penalized. I.e. it's an invalid comparison, because the #2 item is a link to a URL, whereas this post isn't. Selfposts require many more votes to keep pace with URL submissions.

Are you speculating that this is an invalid comparison or do you actually know that the only reason (or even ... primary reason) for the push-down was the fact that it was a "Ask HN" post ?

I've been on HN for much longer than your 2-month old account and (based on the ranking of other "Ask HN" and "Show HN" posts I've seen), I suspect that you're speculating and that your assertion is incorrect.

The huge inconsistency between points and ranking happen on a large number of Microsoft-related posts and almost all of them point to external websites.

[update:Reply to LukeShu] Thanks LukeShu, it is good to know how ranking is implemented.

Btw I didn't question whether the absence of URLs reduced the ranking or not. My question was whether the absence of URLs was the only reason (or at least the primary reason) for the push-down of this specific post.

It seems clear that the .4 multiplication rule could not have been the only reason.

As per the .4 multiplication rule, the post with 290 points should have been downgraded to 116 points. Yet, 4 hours after submission, it was at #8. The #2 post only had 90 points and had been submitted 5 hours earlier. So it seems like the push-down was partly caused both by the 0.4 rule and partly by other factors.

Anyway, I appreciate your investigation. In spite of being on HN for the past few years, I never knew that posts without a URL, got hit by this 0.4 rule.

Re: Ask HN: Why the Microsoft hate?

#438

Post by antonpug »

exodust wrote: post #356
antonpug wrote: post #254

Microsoft makes shitty products that are not well designed or tested. Simple.

Can't wait for filtering technology that detects intelligence in comments. If intelligence found, display comment. MS has made flops, but also products they've worked hard on and made good over time. All tech companies have shitty things happen in their product life. Even car manufacturers. First-gen Mitsubishi Outlander - not a great car. Avoid. 2nd gen Outlander and above (2006+), new engine, better design, better…

I am probably the least biased person when it comes to technology - I love Apple's hardware and software, I hate Apple maps and iTunes, but I love Google Maps and I hate Google Search. I like Bing as my search engine - Bing is nice, I'll give Microsoft that.

Most other products, historically are crap. Microsoft always half-asses things and comes up with products that are irrelevant to the end user. Windows 8? I'd say it's a failure of epic proportions. Microsoft doesn't seem to care about the user experience - I always get a feeling that someone at Microsoft was thinking "Oh, we are getting stale, so we need to do something new - let's come up with this entirely new UI, but we're not really going to put any thought into how it is designed, and we are definitely not going to pay attention to detail".

In OS terms, Windows was always ages behind OS X and Linux IMO - but at least Windows 7 was "perfected", or as close to "perfected" as Microsoft can get. Ever since I switched to OS X, I have not used Windows willingly, and that's 3 years.

Re: Ask HN: Why the Microsoft hate?

#439

Post by devrelm »

maaaats wrote: post #378
anonyfox wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work with ruby/rails, node.js/coffeescript, python, scala and some other stuff on a daily basis on my day job. Thanks to MSDN-AA, i had to work with the complete Microsoft-Stack at University the last year, given every single tool for free (including visual studio ultimate). Guess what? It was just a pain. I can't even describe in words how unproductive it feels to work with .NET when you are used to the latest "hi…

Meh, some of the tools are like vim. Hard to get started, great when you know them. It sounds to me like you are hating because you didn't spend enough time using these things.

That's what I'm getting out of pretty much this entire post.

As an asp.net mvc developer by trade, I could easily say that it could take me hours/days to get stuff done in node.js/rails/django/name-your-framework, that I could otherwise get done in minutes in mvc. Of course, I'm self-aware enough to realize that it's because I have 4 consecutive years of experience with .net, but only a cumulative of maybe a few months in all other technologies (php/rails/python/c/c++) combined (not including school-work.)

Re: Ask HN: Why the Microsoft hate?

#440

Post by newsreader »

I visit Hacker News throughout the day and couldn't agree with you more. The dislike for anything having to do with MS is undeniable. I like HN and have apps installed on my Android tablet and on my Nokia Windows phone (best phone IMO).
Post reply on HN