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Confirmed: The NSA is Spying on Millions of Americans

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Re: Confirmed: The NSA is Spying on Millions of Americans

#431

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? And "go fuck yourself" is "reason" how? I am merely a mirror for the direction you chose to take. If you want to discuss the topic with civility I am all for it so long as you don't ask me to do things with my body I am quite literally biologically incapable of doing.

Merely reflecting the tone you've taken throughout this post. Then to use the passive-aggressive "May I suggest getting an education" bit is incredibly condescending, especially given that your position of less-government is universally better, after being scrubbed of the sensationalist rhetoric you are spewing, has literally 0 empirical evidence behind it. There is a reason Austrian economics is not taken seriously.…

Wrong on so many points.

Feel free to contact me privately with your real name and LinkedIn profile link. My email address is in my profile. I'll send you my LinkedIn URL and you can figure out just what kind of a moron I am.

Re: Confirmed: The NSA is Spying on Millions of Americans

#432
post #356

Gee, let's see: All that NSA 'big data', every phone call, from, to, time, etc. Then we had the wacko Boston bombers. So, apparently the great, all powerful, all seeing, all knowing NSA didn't see those two wackos coming. But, but, but, how could the poor, little NSA be expected to see two, obscure, wacko nutjobs? Well, let's see: The Russians told us over and over that those guys were wackos and dangerous. Told us f…

I realize I'm unfairly ignoring 90% of your rant, but I just want to say I disagree with "too much government" as the issue here. When my computer breaks, I don't throw away my computer. I fix the problem. Size doesn't matter. Focus does. Large organizations can have plenty of thoughtful focus, too. When two terrorists explode bombs at a public event, I definitely don't want less "gumment." I want effective governmen…

In the United States I'm not so certain that you can place the blame on uninformed citizens given that you effectively have a 2 party political system and both parties have been complicit in domestic surveillance.

Re: Confirmed: The NSA is Spying on Millions of Americans

#433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

while you make good points, please stop spelling it 'gumment', it makes you sound like one of the nutjobs.

I honestly had no idea what he meant by "gumment" and thought it was similar to a gauntlet or something. Had to say it out loud before I finally got it. Whats the fucking point of abbreviating something like government to gumment? It just makes you look unintelligent...

It made me hungry for gumbo.

Re: Confirmed: The NSA is Spying on Millions of Americans

#434
post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the state of California is a pretty good counter-example to the purported benefits of increased direct democracy.

As I understand it, one of the problems with California's referendum system is that there's no built-in requirement to fund the initiatives. A referendum system might work better if every initiative had to provide for its own funding, and/or the state constitution required a balanced budget.

Re: Confirmed: The NSA is Spying on Millions of Americans

#435

Gee, let's see: All that NSA 'big data', every phone call, from, to, time, etc. Then we had the wacko Boston bombers. So, apparently the great, all powerful, all seeing, all knowing NSA didn't see those two wackos coming. But, but, but, how could the poor, little NSA be expected to see two, obscure, wacko nutjobs? Well, let's see: The Russians told us over and over that those guys were wackos and dangerous. Told us f…

"The Hellman guy, of course, had been explaining public key crypto-systems that heavily embarrassed the NSA and, really, essentially put it out of business for its stated mission, is smiling. As I recall, he had blond hair long, nearly to his waist. " The Hellman guy was probably Whitfield Diffie. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whitfield_Diffie

Thanks! I think you got it!

Re: Confirmed: The NSA is Spying on Millions of Americans

#436

Earlier quoted context omitted.

likewise! I was several times in NL and perceived you guys the cooler germans. This open minded culture I adored seemed so fixed to me. I hope this conservative backlash will diminsh.

American here, have only visited NL and DE for a few weeks, never lived there. It was also my perception that the Dutch had a live-and-let-live toleration, that seems like the opposite of the monitoring regime described in the comment. (I'm not really referring to marijuana, I'm speaking more generally.) To this naive outsider, who admittedly has something of a crush on Amsterdam, that level of monitoring is puzzling…

I didn't think marijuana was such a big thing there? I was under the impression that it was mostly just a tourist thing rather than a real part of the local culture

Re: Confirmed: The NSA is Spying on Millions of Americans

#437
post #421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your 1. is not the only spark of the process you describe, with considerable accuracy. E.g., the US bent itself all out of shape in Viet Nam and did a lot in Korea, and oil or assets of big US companies were not saved or much at risk or involved. But, yes, some big US companies -- Ike's military- industrial complex -- got big bucks. And in Viet Nam, a lot of oil was burned, and I have long guessed we burned enough oi…

Have the voters wise up and then what ? Vote for either Romney or Obama ?

I don't want to oversimplify, but if the voters wise up, then we will get better candidates.

Also, supposedly both Clinton and W saw the housing bubble blowing and the threat but believed that politically there was nothing they could have done about it. So, they just hoped for the best -- and wrecked the US and advanced world financial system the worst since the 1930s.

With smarter voters, no way could Obama, the CBC, Frank, etc. get Fannie and Freddie to back junk paper that was the real gasoline for the heat for the bubble blowing. E.g., get the 'Frontline' piece with its interview with the COB of Wells Fargo: He was very clear. He saw the bubble blowing, told lots of the right people in various committees in DC, put such a warning in his annual report, and told people that we were not going to like the results. Still, we did nothing.

With better informed voters, a president could have put 10 minutes in one of his State of the Union addresses showing the strong parallels -- bubble blowing from over leveraged financial assets where the bubbles pop and wipe out much of the financial system and take much of the economy down with it -- with The Great Depression and stated clearly that the only responsible thing to do was to get a soft landing and save the country. Then have some meetings, say, about the CRA, Fannie, and Freddie, AIG, some of the CDS swap manipulations, the fast and loose work by the bond ratings agencies, the abuses of the variable rate mortgages and no-doc loans, etc.

In 1980 I was in Ohio and heard some of the stories about the suffering then in the Rust Belt. Just take a list about every bad thing that could happen to people, families, and communities, and that's what happened. So, got domestic violence, street crime, alcohol abuse, drugs, infant mortality, divorces, heart attacks, suicides, all through the roof.

Bad gumment can be really ugly stuff, hurt the middle class a lot and hurt the poor much more.

I'm no fan of Obama, and while I see a lot to like in Romney I thought that from his 47% remark on he just blew his campaign.

But my reading of Obama is that in part he reads the winds and sometimes goes with them, maybe only temporarily, reluctantly, ineffectually, but is willing to appear to go with the flow. Well, with better informed voters speaking more loudly, I suspect that he can actually pretend to go with the winds and at least mostly get out of the way as Congress does the real work.

I believe it's in the hands of the voters and, then, from the media, and now from the Internet.

Re: Confirmed: The NSA is Spying on Millions of Americans

#438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

while you make good points, please stop spelling it 'gumment', it makes you sound like one of the nutjobs.

I honestly had no idea what he meant by "gumment" and thought it was similar to a gauntlet or something. Had to say it out loud before I finally got it. Whats the fucking point of abbreviating something like government to gumment? It just makes you look unintelligent...

'Government' is too respectful.

'Gumment' has the contempt of some barefoot guy in the hills of east Tennessee out in the woods with a home built still. I find that contempt very appropriate.

Otherwise your point is well taken.

Re: Confirmed: The NSA is Spying on Millions of Americans

#439

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tried to make clear: Big gumment brings two problems. First, it wastes money. That's the smaller problem but still quite significant (we need to get our economy going, and wasting money hurts). Second, big gumment is a real threat to "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" and nearly everything we want. But you want to emphasize "effective" gumment. Okay. So did I: I said that we should get the NSA being "saf…

while you make good points, please stop spelling it 'gumment', it makes you sound like one of the nutjobs.

I've never been able to figure the gumment/gubmint guys out. Are they making fun of rednecks? Or are they assuming the role of some sort of redneck freedom fighter? Do rednecks even say "gumment?"

Re: Confirmed: The NSA is Spying on Millions of Americans

#440
post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I realize I'm unfairly ignoring 90% of your rant, but I just want to say I disagree with "too much government" as the issue here. When my computer breaks, I don't throw away my computer. I fix the problem. Size doesn't matter. Focus does. Large organizations can have plenty of thoughtful focus, too. When two terrorists explode bombs at a public event, I definitely don't want less "gumment." I want effective governmen…

In the United States I'm not so certain that you can place the blame on uninformed citizens given that you effectively have a 2 party political system and both parties have been complicit in domestic surveillance.

In general, you put both the McDonald's and Wendy's close together in the best location on Main Street so that they can each get a good shot at half the business. Else one of those two is out at one end or the other of Main Street and gets only about 1/4th business.

Much the same for political parties: They look like there's not much difference. Some of the Dems are a bit left of Mao, and some of the Repubs are a bit to the right of Genghis Khan, still the actual parties want to look close to the center.

But where is the 'center'? And what issues are hot in the center? That depends a lot on the voting citizens and what the media thinks they can get away with pushing.

I contend that with better informed citizens, we would have had political debates on a much higher level, have just avoided The Great Recession because we never would have done something as dumb as the bubble blowing, and done much better on addressing the issues in foreign policy that got us to throw away a few trillion dollars, etc.

Clinton was paying off the national debt; without the costs of the wars and with the taxes from full employment instead of the unemployment from The Great Recession, we could have had the debt paid off by now or nearly so. Why would it be good to pay off the debt? Because then the US Treasury is not borrowing so much money and, then, interest rates are lower for the rest of us and, in effect, our economy has more 'seed corn', investment capital for growth.

For all those years since Clinton, we could have the economy charging ahead, without inflation, so fast that companies would be recruiting in the poor areas, providing buses from the poor areas to the offices, paid training in the offices, etc. It was happening in the 1960s.

Let's take one issue: Abortion. I claim that in reality, in practice, no matter what you believe about abortion, good, bad, or indifferent, actually there's no real issue. Why? Because Roe v Wade was decided about 40 years ago, and there's no chance it will be changed. When we are well on the way to getting 2/3rds of the House, 2/3rds of the Senate, and 3/4ths of the states ready to change Roe v Wade, abortion can be an issue again.

In the meanwhile, what is abortion in politics? Sure, a way to get some people all wound up over something that's not going to change. Why? Because some Repubs feel strongly that abortion is really bad and want to hear that some politician is 'against it'. Because a lot of Dems believe that someday they might need an abortion and want that option open to them so want to hear some politician is 'for it'. Either way, Roe v Wade's not going to be changed. So, with better informed voters, just informed enough to realize that Roe v Wade is 40 years old and a constitutional amendment takes the 2/3rds, 2/3rds, and 3/4ths, we could just quit talking about abortion and move on to, say, how to get the economy going and how to say out of absurd foreign adventures.

In our democracy, the voters get the government they deserve. Better informed voters stand to get better government. If the voters get smarter, then the two seemingly dumb-dumb parties will keep up with the voters.

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