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A Difficult Situation

blog.sendgrid.com

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Re: A Difficult Situation

#431

Post by vacri »

mtrimpe wrote: post #366
vacri wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go read Amanda Blum's piece instead, as it actually has insight and thought behind it. This is just a bit of humour, making egregious errors like "the internet will never forget" (seriously, how many scandals has the internet forgotten?) and "careers are permanently ended" (again, seriously, look at any number of successful public figures and the gaffes they made earlier in life).

I read Amanda's piece and until raganwald's it was indeed the best piece I had read so far. Amanda however vilifies Aria because she considers her too easily offended and finds her feminist agenda obnoxious. I don't, because I believe she has the right to be a slightly obnoxious feminist and we should be defending her right to be that, even when we don't personally agree with it. Raganwald expresses my more deep-seat…

I find it ironic that you think the humour piece is the best summary, given that a significant part of it is about the permanent damage done. So permanent the damage, yet only two days later you can't even get her name right.

The vast bulk of people who have commented in the last couple of days will have forgotten her name in several months.

Re: A Difficult Situation

#432

Post by gritzko »

cheapsteak wrote: post #362
stephengillie wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The joke was between 2 people seated behind her -- were both engineers at Playhaven? Was the other person fired? Edit: Why the downvotes? Is there something I've missed? Does this comment really prevent further discussion on the issue?

Yes they were both engineers at Playhaven. The other person was not fired. It would make little sense to fire someone for being told a joke.

Comrade Stalin disagrees.

Re: A Difficult Situation

#433

Post by enneff »

bmelton wrote: post #425
enneff wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is "Developer Evangelist" a 'star-like' job position where I lose my right to privacy as a result of it? I don't know what this has to do with privacy. Adria made her comments in the public sphere, seemingly to deliberately solicit attention. If you take on a role in the public sphere, you should expect scrutiny. I am a public representative of a software company in a similar role to the one Adria had. I regularly…

That's a very fair answer, and I thank you for it. I suppose, in regards to 'privacy', I mention it because at least early on, Adria was commenting on her 'personal' Twitter feed. Understandably that Twitter account is public, I'm sure at least in part because of her role, but at the same time, I routinely make comments on socio-political issues on Facebook or Google Plus which thankfully have better privacy filters…

I watch myself whenever I say anything in public. That includes Twitter, as my Twitter feed is publicly accessible and I clearly identify myself as affiliated with my employer. The same goes for my Google+ feed, to which I pretty-much exclusively post public content.

If someone were to trawl through my Twitter feed to make light of something offensive I once said, that's fair game. If I didn't want the world to see it, I wouldn't have put it out there.

When communicating in private, personal settings - and this includes IRC channels populated by friends, dinner parties, and so on - I am unrestrained. If someone were to publicly call me out on something I said personally to a friend in a private venue, I would consider that a breach my privacy.

Re: A Difficult Situation

#434

Post by r00fus »

rooshdi wrote: post #276
fingerprinter wrote: post #93

Who didn't see this coming? And when she pulled SendGrid, her employer, publicly into the fray via her twitter feed, who didn't know it was simply a matter of time? I mean, what else could SendGrid possibly do? She basically forced them to fire her. Her value to the company is being a public face to developers . She very publicly destroyed that value. Further, she pulled SendGrid in with her tweet about them "support…

She didn't force them to fire her. People are just blowing this way out of proportion. Everybody needs to chill out, especially the corporate management of both companies.

Of course she didn't. But she greatly devalued herself by showing poor judgement - at this point, unless she was highly influential in the organization or her value (in other projects) was high enough for the company to support her regardless, she had committed a career-limiting move [1]

[1] http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=CLM:+Career+L...

Re: A Difficult Situation

#435

Post by dinkumthinkum »

Steuard wrote: post #409
dinkumthinkum wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're trying very hard to fight for her. Fight the good fight. But it's delusional. She's clearly making a moronic statement. It is stupid on many levels, including rigorous and sociological levels. Many racists, even if they are white, which apparently under your's and her paradigm are the only ones that can be racist, are not in any position of power. If you take some old white, filthy, dirt poor racist, and compa…

These issues are not as simple as you think they are. Race and gender are at least as complicated as, say, physics or programming. Unless you've done substantial and reasonably formal study of these topics, it turns out that you're going to misunderstand a lot of things. (At the very least, just as physicists use very specific, formal definitions of concepts like "work" and "energy", people who study race and gender…

I spent a considerable amount of time studying the existential feminism of Simone de Beauvoir; not sure that matters here. I think it's simpler than you claim! I wasn't aware Adria Richard's ridiculous tweet had such intellectual depth.

My example was not that the rich guy was the racist; it was that the dirty white guy was the racist but that he had no oppressive power, in a meaningful sense other than the actual bigotry, over the rich guy, as you put it.

Adria Richards was not making as far reaching statements as you claim. This was not an epistle on sociological performances. This was a statement that "X" group "CANNOT" be racist. I understand the position you want to make, and claiming "the experts on this stuff" doesn't really impress me. I am not denying any such concepts as institutional racism or anything of the kind. You can have all the racial performances you want, that's fine. But the idea that X group cannot be racist is just stupid. The idea that only one group can ever be in a position of power is flawed and "position of power" does not only have to refer to status in society as a whole but can be applied to particular communities and so on and so forth.

Re: A Difficult Situation

#436

Post by khet »

Regardless of what happens I hope both employers at least offer to hire them back. People make mistakes. Figure out a way for everyone to learn from it and move on. There will be better times.

Re: A Difficult Situation

#437

Post by benjiweber »

jennyjenjen wrote: post #397
cletus wrote: post #318

I'm honestly surprised that anyone is attacking Sendgrid, defending Ms Richards, attacking PyCon or defending Playhaven in this incident. The fact is that what you do reflects on your employer to a degree. If you're a developer evangelist, that's quite a high degree, particularly if you drag them into your public spat. Most people in the media (news readers and so forth) have a "morals clause" in their contract becau…

I wish I could say that I'm surprised that anyone is attacking SendGrid. Even though they have done nothing to deserve such backlash - both before and after firing Adria Richards - it doesn't surprise me in the least that people are taking the opportunity to unleash hateful comments and demonstrate poor attitudes. I agree with you all the way, other than that. SendGrid made a great case for departing with Ms. Richard…

> Even though they have done nothing to deserve such backlash

They fired an employee without due process. Apparently a knee-jerk reaction rather than considered disciplinary process.

They capitulated to an anonymous DDOS. Even with a ridiculous demand. Giving the impression they were not technically able to bring the service back up by themselves.

Neither of these gives me confidence in trusting SendGrid with email. The first makes me think they'll be happy doing rash and possibly illegal things like sending email data in response to a subpoena. The second makes me doubt their future reliability.

Re: A Difficult Situation

#438

Post by tempestn »

keli wrote: post #348
ForrestN wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This whole situation makes me deeply uncomfortable. First, because it demonstrates the extent to which a company can be brought to its knees by a group of hostile people organized online. Second because hundreds and hundreds of men here and elsewhere seem quite happy to align themselves with an overtly sexist, violently threatening campaign against an individual whose views they disagree with. I am not in a position…

But why did she tweet the photo? Why stir up a bunch of shit in public? Apparently she has done it before: http://amandablumwords.wordpress.com/2013/03/21/3/

Wow. Indeed, that's a pretty clear pattern. Looks like she spends her time looking for ridiculous things to get deeply offended by.

Re: A Difficult Situation

#439

Post by kamkazemoose »

jennyjenjen wrote: post #397
cletus wrote: post #318

I'm honestly surprised that anyone is attacking Sendgrid, defending Ms Richards, attacking PyCon or defending Playhaven in this incident. The fact is that what you do reflects on your employer to a degree. If you're a developer evangelist, that's quite a high degree, particularly if you drag them into your public spat. Most people in the media (news readers and so forth) have a "morals clause" in their contract becau…

I wish I could say that I'm surprised that anyone is attacking SendGrid. Even though they have done nothing to deserve such backlash - both before and after firing Adria Richards - it doesn't surprise me in the least that people are taking the opportunity to unleash hateful comments and demonstrate poor attitudes. I agree with you all the way, other than that. SendGrid made a great case for departing with Ms. Richard…

I agree that the backlash to SendGrid has been extreme, and an overreaction, but I feel that they were at least partially to blame before firing Ms. Richards. She stated the SendGrid supported her actions, and without SendGrid saying anything, they are implicitly agreeing that they support her. So I feel people have a right to be angry with SendGrid for supporting Ms. Richards, and I understand people who wrote them angry letters, or made a decision to boycott them.

On the other hand, I don't support people launching a DDoS, or any other sort of a more extreme response.

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