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Building from zero after addiction, prison, and a felony

gavinray97.github.io

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Re: Building from zero after addiction, prison, and a felony

#431

Post by antonvs »

retsibsi wrote: post #410
carlio wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's always been a general pushback on HN against turning threads into a series of quippy oneliners. It tends toward having a serious discussion about a topic, rather than farming low-effort humour for upvotes. I consider this a good thing, as there are plenty of other places where that is rewarded.

Yeah it seems harmless in isolation, but I'm pretty sure that lacking a norm against it it is one of the ways you end up with Reddit. And because HN doesn't have an actual anti-humour rule, in the best case it lets the funnier and more creative stuff through while punishing the obvious one-liners and boilerplate jokes that everyone would be clamouring to make first on a Reddit thread. (I don't want to be rude, but th…

> I don't want to be rude, but the thing where someone writes stereotypical AI speak in an ironic context has been done a billion times and doesn't need to be done again

Yeah. As the person who triggered this subthread by not detecting the attempt at "humor", the last thing we need is a version of Poe's Law for AI slop.

Re: Building from zero after addiction, prison, and a felony

#432

Post by shrubby »

hnlmorg wrote: post #373
shrubby wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm tempted to start the full deontology and Jellinek model on substance abuse on this, but don't have the effort now. If we perform a cost benefit analysis on alcohol the downsides are plentiful and then some. And the pluses are practically masked versions (taste, buzz,...) of the two major things that make human do anything: what others are doing and what I'm used to (which are pretty shit reasons to do anything IM…

I actually don’t disagree with some of that. But that’s not the point I was discussing. Let me put it another way: banning something that most people use sensibly and enjoy in moderation isn’t a society that anyone wants to live in nor should live in. I'm sure you'd be the first to complain if the government went after something you enjoyed that caused harm to a minority of other people. Which is why I keep coming ba…

Banning something that has so huge disadvantages, but has been lobbied just like cigarettes is exactly the kind of society I want to live in.

But the choice is not mine, so in that way I win.

It's a social norm and a poison from my POV and just like pfas or plastic in the drinking water I believe it should be controlled and the lobbying banned. Then we'd see the true wish of humanity.

Now our needs are manufactured, not around our wellbeing, but for what "must" be lobbied and advertised.

The norm is manufactured. Just like the addictive algorithms and almost any other thing in this world of pseudo-free will.

Even the likes of Joe Rogan are bringing up the issue, with many others so I see some light in the tunnel for my society, but so far you're right. Your side seems to be winning.

Re: Building from zero after addiction, prison, and a felony

#433

Post by shrubby »

hnlmorg wrote: post #373
shrubby wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm tempted to start the full deontology and Jellinek model on substance abuse on this, but don't have the effort now. If we perform a cost benefit analysis on alcohol the downsides are plentiful and then some. And the pluses are practically masked versions (taste, buzz,...) of the two major things that make human do anything: what others are doing and what I'm used to (which are pretty shit reasons to do anything IM…

I actually don’t disagree with some of that. But that’s not the point I was discussing. Let me put it another way: banning something that most people use sensibly and enjoy in moderation isn’t a society that anyone wants to live in nor should live in. I'm sure you'd be the first to complain if the government went after something you enjoyed that caused harm to a minority of other people. Which is why I keep coming ba…

Escape can be done with a lot of things, most of those aren't as harmful as alcohol.

Even in substances there are some with very light harms compared to ethanol, but "this is what we've always been doing".

Re: Building from zero after addiction, prison, and a felony

#434

Post by shrubby »

joe_mamba wrote: post #324
shrubby wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. In a healthy society there would be no need for intoxicants with so severe harms (BBC list for substances by harm is a good reference) and thus no exposure for a addictive substance. Now the norm decides that, almost without exceptions, we must all be exposed.

>In a healthy society there would be no need for intoxicants with so severe harms Yeah but we don't live in a healthy society. We have more abundance and more advanced healthcare and drugs than ever before, but we are sick in terms of missing social connections and family unit, even in big cities. Hence why mental illnesses and substance abuse are going up. People don't thrive on GDP line go up and cheap large screen…

Yes. 100 percent agree. The addiction industry requires us to be desperate and wanting an escape, so that they can brainwash us into complicity and brain fog from hangover or doomscrollin.

Re: Building from zero after addiction, prison, and a felony

#435

Post by ivell »

zuzululu wrote: post #421
ivell wrote: post #420

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No they don't know and if they did I would get fired obviously. This already shows the problem. They assume they are paying for your time exclusively, while you are doing just enough to satisfy them. The fact you go such lengths to hide the fact that you are three timing them also shows that you know what you are doing is not acceptable. Most likely you are in breach of the employment contract. You are also somehow…

I don't see an issue since they are happy with my output. Who's getting hurt here ? That I'm working more efficiently then someone hired to do the job 9-5 ? so you want me to make less money, couple myself to an employer who doesn't offer any upward mobility or job stability because you think its immoral that finally the dynamics have tipped the balancing pole in the workers favor? are you not speaking out of jealous…

>are you not speaking out of jealousy here?

I am not envying your situation at all.

People who are getting hurt are people like you and me. Employers are seeing your comments. They are reading about others who do this. They are losing trust. When they pay you, they expect you to work for them diligently and not just up to a level of KPI. This behavior will make them to force people to come to work. Remote working will be gone. They will start paying less because they expect people to two time anyway. Overall society loses due to loss of trust.

So you gain something, but society as a whole loses.

P.S. Even if my wife is very happy with me, it doesn't mean that I can have another relationship. Either I have an agreed open marriage or I am cheating. A different thing, but I would say similar.

Re: Building from zero after addiction, prison, and a felony

#436

Post by thatguy0900 »

Tade0 wrote: post #310
mapassthebeans wrote: post #148

Had similarly unorthodox path to tech, albeit without the drug addiction or prison. 90s early internet/BBS punk rocker/computer nerd. Hated school angry. Dropped out to work as a bike messenger for 5 years before packing a bag and moving west randomly. Couldn't sit still. Rode freight trains around the country for a few months. Washed dishes and landscaped to cover my cheap rent till that fell thru. Discovered shop l…

You are what I've started to call "34yo Patrice". 34yo Patrice has a stable job, a fiancé and broadly speaking has his life in order. Nobody in his circle knows he dropped out of high school, got in the wrong crowd and, inevitably, did time. This archetype is a mix of several people I've met and I usually mention it when a younger person says this and that thing (e.g. dropping out of college) is the end of the world…

The 20 yr olds of now and the future will have far less luxury being forgotten than the previous generation I suspect

Re: Building from zero after addiction, prison, and a felony

#437

Post by hnlmorg »

shrubby wrote: post #433
hnlmorg wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually don’t disagree with some of that. But that’s not the point I was discussing. Let me put it another way: banning something that most people use sensibly and enjoy in moderation isn’t a society that anyone wants to live in nor should live in. I'm sure you'd be the first to complain if the government went after something you enjoyed that caused harm to a minority of other people. Which is why I keep coming ba…

Escape can be done with a lot of things, most of those aren't as harmful as alcohol. Even in substances there are some with very light harms compared to ethanol, but "this is what we've always been doing".

You're now making a rational argument against an irrational condition.

As I keep saying: the underlying causes behind alcoholism is something that needs to be specifically addressed if you don't want alcoholics to simply switch to something worse.

This is why support groups like Alcoholics Anonymous talk about people's lives and their struggles. They aren't trying to address the access to alcohol, they address the mental state that drove people to abuse alcohol.

This is the key part you keep ignoring. Making alcohol illegal doesn't solve these issues. People will still find a way to get smashed. And there's proof of this in Saudi and Iran where black markets thrive. The proof is also with people in the the EU, UK and US who keep switching from one recreational drug to the next as governments ban new substances in a game of whack-a-mole.

What you're trying to do is treat the symptom, not the cause. And that's why I keep disagreeing with you.

Re: Building from zero after addiction, prison, and a felony

#438

Post by hnlmorg »

shrubby wrote: post #432
hnlmorg wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually don’t disagree with some of that. But that’s not the point I was discussing. Let me put it another way: banning something that most people use sensibly and enjoy in moderation isn’t a society that anyone wants to live in nor should live in. I'm sure you'd be the first to complain if the government went after something you enjoyed that caused harm to a minority of other people. Which is why I keep coming ba…

Banning something that has so huge disadvantages, but has been lobbied just like cigarettes is exactly the kind of society I want to live in. But the choice is not mine, so in that way I win. It's a social norm and a poison from my POV and just like pfas or plastic in the drinking water I believe it should be controlled and the lobbying banned. Then we'd see the true wish of humanity. Now our needs are manufactured,…

> Banning something that has so huge disadvantages, but has been lobbied just like cigarettes is exactly the kind of society I want to live in.

Alcohol isn't like cigarettes. It's more like coffee or cake in terms of the social aspect. You clearly have huge prejudice against alcohol as a whole, but you need to understand that the vast majority of people who drink, do not drink like the minority of people you associate with alcohol.

Also, cigarettes haven't been banned. Their sale has just been hugely restricted. Which is also true for alcohol.

> Now our needs are manufactured, not around our wellbeing, but for what "must" be lobbied and advertised.

You're now just reiterating the same point I made elsewhere ;)

> Your side seems to be winning.

It's not a battle to win. It’s about choice and support. You are responsible for making your own choices. But you shouldn't be dictating how others should live their own lives.

The way a healthy society works is you give people opportunities and support, and the freedom for individuals to make their own choices. However what you're advocating is taking those choices away for everyone based on your own personal prejudices of a small few. And that's not a world anyone else wants to live in.

You also keep ignoring my point that the actual subsection of society you have a problem with (alcoholics) are the same subsection of society that needs support first. If you simply take the booze away, then their underlying mental health and addiction will just drive them to switch to different substances. And if you solve their condition first, then alcohol no longer is the problem you protest so strongly against.

Simply put, you really don't understand the thing you have such a strong opinion about. And it's evidenced by the fact that you keep sidestepping the real issues behind alcohol. But you still want to restrict peoples freedoms regardless.

Re: Building from zero after addiction, prison, and a felony

#439

Post by bragr »

red-iron-pine wrote: post #390
nunez wrote: post #379

> Working at Techtonic was the best possible early-career experience I think anyone could have had. They did contract development, a lot of which was greenfield Saas MVP launches, across various tech stacks. There was not a lot of time for mentorship so it a very "trial-by-fire" experience -- either figure things out and ship stuff, or get the boot. I *always* tell older people looking to switch into tech to start at…

> It doesn't pay well, and the work can be brutal (nights and weekends; on-call) but it's a great way to get the experience needed to get the job that does if you're starting from zero. sadly that's a non-starter for a lot of people in this economy. doubly so if you have kids.

This lacks perspective of the position of OP and people like him. For them, stringing together multiple full and part time minimum wage jobs is the norm. Not having health insurance is the norm. Extreme commutes, often not by car, is the norm. Are these kinds of consulting jobs great? No, probably not. Better compensation and hours than the alternative? Almost certainly.

Consider how he and his wife were surviving before he got back into tech. That's the norm for a lot of people.

Re: Building from zero after addiction, prison, and a felony

#440

Post by zuzululu »

ivell wrote: post #435
zuzululu wrote: post #421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see an issue since they are happy with my output. Who's getting hurt here ? That I'm working more efficiently then someone hired to do the job 9-5 ? so you want me to make less money, couple myself to an employer who doesn't offer any upward mobility or job stability because you think its immoral that finally the dynamics have tipped the balancing pole in the workers favor? are you not speaking out of jealous…

>are you not speaking out of jealousy here? I am not envying your situation at all. People who are getting hurt are people like you and me. Employers are seeing your comments. They are reading about others who do this. They are losing trust. When they pay you, they expect you to work for them diligently and not just up to a level of KPI. This behavior will make them to force people to come to work. Remote working wil…

How am I getting hurt here my income is 3x

The KPIs are there specifically to measure time to results not how long you stuck around the office for

How am I responsible for your situation (I don't even know you) and why do you look to others to do it for you?

Are my employers here right now in the room with us ?

Are you going to blame me if your wife leaves you tomorrow because she read you hinted at wishing you were with somebody else?

Like how far does this go ? What else do you plan on blaming me for ?

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