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Canada to order military plane fleet from Sweden in shift from US suppliers

theguardian.com

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Re: Canada to order military plane fleet from Sweden in shift from US suppliers

#431

Post by mcdonje »

selivanovp wrote: post #381
marcus_holmes wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree completely. But part of that would be getting Russia to stop attempting to become a cold-war boogeyman, and stop behaving like a cold-war boogeyman. Russia also signed that treaty, and is also blatantly breaking it.

[flagged]

Seems like you're claiming Ukraine's 2014 "Revolution of Dignity" and subsequent democratic elections were something the USA did. That's a controversial claim, and one that ignores the recorded actions and sentiments of the Ukrainian people. It's also unrealistic and gives the US too much credit.

The US does have their hands in pies across the globe, but that was a large scale uprising of Ukrainian people. No outside force can make something like that happen if the people aren't already aligned.

The simpler explanation is the Ukrainian people wanted to be closer to the EU, and didn't like Yanukovych's authoritarian tendencies. I wouldn't be surprised if some propaganda blamed it on the US, but it doesn't make sense. If the US wanted to do regime change and the public wasn't behind it, it would look very different. There are unfortunately many examples.

Re: Canada to order military plane fleet from Sweden in shift from US suppliers

#432

Post by Imustaskforhelp »

GJim wrote: post #429
Imustaskforhelp wrote: post #424

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was interesting but it seems that it requires me to access to properly see the data of all countries (which requires me to contact them basically and perhaps be a business, not sure) I would find it interesting if you can share with me hopefully a less restrictive chart than this. The data does seem interesting to me.

Here you go. https://www.niradata.com/global-country-perceptions-2026 (From the above, following the link to free sample for USA data is very revealing. )

Thanks the data is interesting.

The net perception of US among its top trading partners being all negative seems a clear indicator.

Sad that niradata has paywalled rest of the data because I was interested in the rabbit hole of comparing different countries. From the data:

Across the 84 countries that evaluated the United States, 22 had a net positive perception, while 62 had a net negative perception. The average net perception of the United States is negative (-16), ranking #128 out of 132 countries.

Re: Canada to order military plane fleet from Sweden in shift from US suppliers

#433

Post by ifwinterco »

flakeoil wrote: post #393
ifwinterco wrote: post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is 100% true and I agree with all of it, but I would just add that for fighter jets specifically the calculus is a bit different. Unless you want to buy Chinese jets your choices are either F35s or a big step down to 4th generation fighters that are materially worse in terms of capability. Modern 4th gen fighters are still very capable, cheaper, simpler and more reliable, but if you ever do end up facing an adve…

But if you can have more 4th gen aircrafts and have easier support and maintenance so that you can keep them flying, then that might more than outweigh the 5th gen aircrafts possible superiority. A 5th gen aircraft on the ground is not very useful. It's easier to bomb out 100 aircraft than 400 aircraft. A 5th gen aircraft, disabled remotely via software is not very useful.

Yep I don't disagree, especially with your last point

Re: Canada to order military plane fleet from Sweden in shift from US suppliers

#434

Post by ifwinterco »

benj111 wrote: post #428
ifwinterco wrote: post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is 100% true and I agree with all of it, but I would just add that for fighter jets specifically the calculus is a bit different. Unless you want to buy Chinese jets your choices are either F35s or a big step down to 4th generation fighters that are materially worse in terms of capability. Modern 4th gen fighters are still very capable, cheaper, simpler and more reliable, but if you ever do end up facing an adve…

Given the state of missile tech, is that as relevant anymore? If you strap a missile on to a Cessna that can take down a 5th gen fighter before it knows you're there. Doesn't really matter what fancy doodads the latest and greatest jet has. Further if your 5th gen jets are relying on tech from your adversary....

I'm not an expert by any means but my understanding is improved missiles mean this is more relevant than ever.

Non-stealthy 4th gen fighters are sitting ducks in 2026 against a peer opponent as we've seen in ukraine

Re: Canada to order military plane fleet from Sweden in shift from US suppliers

#435

Post by Lapel2742 »

simondotau wrote: post #425
Lapel2742 wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Mind you, it's one man, and not the nation or state, but he does have a lot of backers. My 2ct: He is the duly elected leader in a representative democracy. He speaks on behalf of all U.S. Americans, he acts on behalf of all U.S. Americans, and all U.S. Americans share the same responsibility for the actions of his government. He isn't the only problem, though. It has now been proven that the U.S. Constitution is n…

People outside the US understand that Trump is a temporary phenomenon. And there's no evidence that Trump has any interest in post-Trump politics, except insofar as it insulates him from repercussions.

> People outside the US understand

I am outside the U.S.

> that Trump is a temporary phenomenon

It is not. The unlimited authority, the supreme court that goes along with it, the party that supports it all, and the citizenship that enables it in the first place will be there long after Trump is gone. It's not Trump pulling the trigger.

It's not Trump alone. There was the Tea-party before him and there will be fascists after him. We are not talking about the USA doing some shady things. We are talking about a country that gave up on shared values and norms, that kills people left and right without due process and that assaults countries without reason, all while threatening the next assault(s) and being openly racist.

Re: Canada to order military plane fleet from Sweden in shift from US suppliers

#436

Post by GJim »

05hundred wrote: post #407
GJim wrote: post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> America did spend resources on defense of gulf states. No offence mate, but did you miss the bit about the USA starting the war?

Considering the last sentence in the comment you are replying to, i doubt they missed it...

Their use of the word "probably" rather suggests they did miss it. By a country mile.

Re: Canada to order military plane fleet from Sweden in shift from US suppliers

#437

Post by GJim »

simondotau wrote: post #425
Lapel2742 wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Mind you, it's one man, and not the nation or state, but he does have a lot of backers. My 2ct: He is the duly elected leader in a representative democracy. He speaks on behalf of all U.S. Americans, he acts on behalf of all U.S. Americans, and all U.S. Americans share the same responsibility for the actions of his government. He isn't the only problem, though. It has now been proven that the U.S. Constitution is n…

People outside the US understand that Trump is a temporary phenomenon. And there's no evidence that Trump has any interest in post-Trump politics, except insofar as it insulates him from repercussions.

> People outside the US understand that Trump is a temporary phenomenon

Oh god no. How wrong can you be.

The world is now well aware what the American people have voted for (twice!) and may well vote for again. We don't want that risk thanks.

Re: Canada to order military plane fleet from Sweden in shift from US suppliers

#438

Post by GJim »

brightball wrote: post #295
adjejmxbdjdn wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the past countries would buy American equipment even if it wasn’t the best fit because that would make you essentially an American ally. Being part of the U.S. ecosystem was valuable. Unfortunately, over the last 1.5 years, the political value proposition has turned by 180 degrees. - Being a U.S. ally no longer guarantees that you will be protected by the U.S. as Ukraine is seeing. But the U.S. has been tearing ag…

> Being a U.S. ally no longer guarantees that you will be protected by the U.S. as Ukraine is seeing. How much more is the US supposed to do in Ukraine beyond the $60-70 billion in weapons and supplies? Do we need to actually go to war with Russia?

> How much more is the US supposed to do in Ukraine beyond the $60-70 billion in weapons and supplies?

sigh

800 Patriot missiles were used within the first 3 days in the Iran war. This is greater than the total number of Patriot missiles received by Ukraine during the entire war with Russia.

Your orange president is displaying some funny priorities.

Re: Canada to order military plane fleet from Sweden in shift from US suppliers

#439

Post by hgoel »

simondotau wrote: post #425
Lapel2742 wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Mind you, it's one man, and not the nation or state, but he does have a lot of backers. My 2ct: He is the duly elected leader in a representative democracy. He speaks on behalf of all U.S. Americans, he acts on behalf of all U.S. Americans, and all U.S. Americans share the same responsibility for the actions of his government. He isn't the only problem, though. It has now been proven that the U.S. Constitution is n…

People outside the US understand that Trump is a temporary phenomenon. And there's no evidence that Trump has any interest in post-Trump politics, except insofar as it insulates him from repercussions.

I don't see how anyone can think Trump is a temporary phenomenon, it's been a decade since he got into politics and things have only gotten nastier. On the scale of a person's life, this is definitely not a temporary thing.

Re: Canada to order military plane fleet from Sweden in shift from US suppliers

#440

Post by breve »

selivanovp wrote: post #381
marcus_holmes wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree completely. But part of that would be getting Russia to stop attempting to become a cold-war boogeyman, and stop behaving like a cold-war boogeyman. Russia also signed that treaty, and is also blatantly breaking it.

[flagged]

> a separator between Russia and NATO countries

Why does Russia need a separator between itself and NATO countries? What do you think is going to happen without it?

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