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EU to crack down on TikTok, Instagram's 'addictive design' targeting kids

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Re: EU to crack down on TikTok, Instagram's 'addictive design' targeting kids

#431

Post by fc417fc802 »

nemothekid wrote: post #416
fc417fc802 wrote: post #394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand the basic principle. Clearly that's one of the inputs. What I'm questioning is your implied assertion that there's nothing else to it. I don't for a second believe that tiktok (or facebook or any of the others) employs a primitive algorithm that impartially orders results based on a simple and straightforward metric without consideration for their own interests.

> I don't for a second believe that tiktok (or facebook or any of the others) employs a primitive algorithm Is your contention that whatever future law have some mechanism to decide the complexity of the algorithm? How would you design a law such that the reddit ranking algorithm is primitive, but tiktok's algorithim is "advanced".

You're changing the subject. I said nothing about the law, only objected to a claim about the internal mechanisms of tiktok.

If we're discussing hypothetical laws then my preference is for several. Banning various dark patterns (what the EU is doing here), banning opaque individualization outside the control of the individual in question, and banning motivated editorialization (such a intentionally promoting a particular political position). And yes, a straightforward application of what I wrote there would make the netflix recommendation algorithm as it currently stands illegal. I have no problem with that.

Re: EU to crack down on TikTok, Instagram's 'addictive design' targeting kids

#432

Post by jmusall »

InsideOutSanta wrote: post #242
conception wrote: post #19

This is pretty easy to solve. If you present data by algorithm, you are no longer an impartial common carrier and are liable for the content you present. If the user decides you don’t, ala social media 1.0.

This exactly. I find it perplexing that social media companies get to make decisions about what people see but then also get to pretend that they are just a neutral communication medium. They're clearly not.

HN also decides what you see. Yes, it's (mostly) based on other users' upvotes, but on TikTok et al. its the same just with a different metric (watchtime, interaction, retention and probabily more). Where do you draw the line? Or do you have a different proposal how these generated feeds should work? I don't think just showing content by users you follow is going to cut it, because ideally the purpose is to show new and interesting stuff nobody in your circle was aware of.

Re: EU to crack down on TikTok, Instagram's 'addictive design' targeting kids

#433

Post by jmusall »

randoments wrote: post #352
rmnwski wrote: post #335

What I really enjoy about hn is the fact that it’s not infinite scrolling. I scan the front page, if something grabs my attention, I’ll look at. If something has a lot of comments, it seems important. When I’m done scanning/reading, I’m done. On social media, you’re never done.

thats why they invented /new and the refresh button. Tbh, i have a procrastination problem and HN is as good as an excuse as any other social network.

The comment sections are perfectly fit for this purpose, too.

Re: EU to crack down on TikTok, Instagram's 'addictive design' targeting kids

#434

Post by fc417fc802 »

GoatInGrey wrote: post #384
fc417fc802 wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People are pushing to regulate a product that's proven detrimental to wellbeing on a large scale. What does that have to do with parenting?

Some believe, though they hesitate to put it in writing where it could be openly challenged, that regulations are a dysfunctional aspect of governance and that solutions to systemic issues lie at the individual level.

I do think that's often the case. Regulations in practice are frequently (but not always) worse than the individual solution and crowd the latter out in the process. Drug laws are a fantastic example. I doubt outlawing meth or opiates has been a net benefit on the whole if you truly look at the bigger picture. But if a mega corporation is peddling meth laced sodas to children outside the local elementary school I don't think "lol parent harder" is a sensible rebuttal (or even on topic) to people demanding some minimal amount of regulation. Banning meth in sodas is a perfectly reasonable solution there - go purchase it separately at the pharmacy!

Re: EU to crack down on TikTok, Instagram's 'addictive design' targeting kids

#435

Post by duxup »

conception wrote: post #19

This is pretty easy to solve. If you present data by algorithm, you are no longer an impartial common carrier and are liable for the content you present. If the user decides you don’t, ala social media 1.0.

Sorting by date is an algorithm…

Re: EU to crack down on TikTok, Instagram's 'addictive design' targeting kids

#436

Post by dTal »

nemothekid wrote: post #416
fc417fc802 wrote: post #394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand the basic principle. Clearly that's one of the inputs. What I'm questioning is your implied assertion that there's nothing else to it. I don't for a second believe that tiktok (or facebook or any of the others) employs a primitive algorithm that impartially orders results based on a simple and straightforward metric without consideration for their own interests.

> I don't for a second believe that tiktok (or facebook or any of the others) employs a primitive algorithm Is your contention that whatever future law have some mechanism to decide the complexity of the algorithm? How would you design a law such that the reddit ranking algorithm is primitive, but tiktok's algorithim is "advanced".

Reddit is as bad as the others, now.

Re: EU to crack down on TikTok, Instagram's 'addictive design' targeting kids

#439

Post by ZetsuBouKyo »

palata wrote: post #39
Pesthuf wrote: post #23

Tell me: why are these algorithms suddenly okay when the victim turns 18? They are bad for everyone and if you’re willing to regulate them, make them illegal to be used on anyone.

Same as for the cigarette: it's a lot easier to regulate stuff for kids, because we as a society tend to agree that they need to be protected. Much harder to do with adults, because it is much less of a consensus.

The ban is meant to protect kids, but secondhand smoke is almost everywhere.

Re: EU to crack down on TikTok, Instagram's 'addictive design' targeting kids

#440

Post by 0dayz »

Aurornis wrote: post #120
criddell wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the radio I heard a reporter talking about things China does during school exams. Apparently all schools have exams at the same time and during that period, social media shuts down at night. I forget the exact hours (10pm - 6am maybe). I'm starting to think that would be a great policy in general for everybody. I think they also said AI companies go offline during exam hours, but I may have got that wrong.

Absolutely wild that we’re seeing proposals to shut down parts of the internet and regulate when people can talk to each other on social platforms as a real suggestion on HN. I feel like we’ve completely lost the plot when we’re starting to invite government partial Internet shutdowns as a good idea. This is a totalitarian government play.

It's only 'lost the plot' if we still believe in the false narrative of cyber libertarianism.

There is potential harm in us doing regulation but there is also benefits thinking it's this binary option of free VS slavery is imo. Harmful.

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