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BYD overtakes Tesla and Kia as the best-selling EV brand in key overseas markets

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Re: BYD overtakes Tesla and Kia as the best-selling EV brand in key overseas markets

#431

Post by baranul »

culi wrote: post #358
WarmWash wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US it's practically a right of passage to be a young adult and very vocally hate the country, hate the government. In China you don't have a life in front of you if you do that.

Try browsing Chinese social media (WeChat, Douyin, Weibo, etc). The internet is ripe with non-anonymous criticism of the gov't People often point to the take down of Winnie the Pooh memes as censorship but I don't think people realize there's a long history of racist groups using Pooh as a slur about Asian people and Tigger about black people. The meme exploded in popularity from a picture of Obama and Xi being compa…

> nation that contains 25% of the world's prisoners

Among the problems is not being able to look in the mirror. There are those that don't realize, "when you point one finger, there are three fingers point back at you".

Re: BYD overtakes Tesla and Kia as the best-selling EV brand in key overseas markets

#432

Post by mrexcess »

lenerdenator wrote: post #390
mrexcess wrote: post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You have a near-permanent upper class that has no real political opposition that could impact their value creation ambitions. Sorry, what? China regularly prosecutes billionaires. Between 2003 and the mid 2010s it EXECUTED at least 15 billionaires. When was the last time a US billionaire faced a death penalty case, even when their actions directly result in tens of thousands of innocents dying? Isn’t the US much mo…

You're putting capital on a higher hill than the political class. That's not always the case. Billionaires are problematic by their very existence, but the sort of power they want is what the CCP has. They want to use their capital to build that. Trump's having the best luck so far. If there are people who also just happen to be extremely wealthy who get in their way, they'd gladly use the power they then had to get…

Comparisons between CCP and private industry in the West seems misaligned in several respects. CCP does not have fiduciary duty to shareholders, instead, it has accountability to national political goals as well as broad based economic outcomes.

This is a much different model. Yes, the CCP has the sort of power that elite authoritarians crave, but it also has constraints and demands that no elites would ever face.

I would add that China also executes quite a few government officials for corruption and bribery. Estimates based on reporting suggest that about 25 Chinese officials each year are executed for this, and over 200,000 have been prosecuted in serious criminal trials, often with multi decade prison sentences or even life sentences. Again, the contrast with Western permissiveness is stunning.

Re: BYD overtakes Tesla and Kia as the best-selling EV brand in key overseas markets

#433

Post by HarHarVeryFunny »

ponector wrote: post #417
HarHarVeryFunny wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's hardly smuggling if there is no process to collect the duties from you. Are you meant to walk into a random local government office and hand them a bunch of cash and say "i think i owe you this" ?! What if it's a used car, not new, what's the tariff then? I can't believe there is no process to collect it if you import it just by driving across the border.

>>> walk into a random local government office and hand them That is exactly how it works. You go to the customs and hand them bunch of filled papers to proceed with customs clearance procedure. Also you cannot simply import a car to USA, unless it is for a "demo" purposes or 25+ y.o.

So where exactly? At the border? Someplace else?

If you were having a car shipped (literally) to you from overseas then presumably customs clearance is at the port.

What if someone buys a 1 year old car (any Brand, not just BYD) from Canada - what import fees would apply?

Re: BYD overtakes Tesla and Kia as the best-selling EV brand in key overseas markets

#434

Post by raxxorraxor »

hdhdhsjsbdh wrote: post #3

BYD has to me become an icon of US decline vs Chinese expansion. It’s just one example among many of China charting the way forward and innovating while the US recedes further into backward-looking, protectionist policy. See: US politicians on both sides trying to ban BYD imports rather than incentivizing stiffer competition from US automakers. Another example: massive growth in Chinese renewables while the US opens…

BYD is successful because they are cheap. For most people cars are simple utilities.

But countries either need to be protectionist or you need to lower production costs to a Chinese level. That means workers only earn the same as a Chinese worker.

You could also collect import taxes, but I think people simply cannot or don't want to afford a car that is much more expensive.

Some decry Chinese government subsidies for cars, but the truth is that these exist in western nations as well. They are sometimes indirect, but the end result is the same. The secret to cheap prices is simple labor costs.

Commonly refereed to as race to the bottom and not a new topic/problem. Car makers in countries with high labor costs could maybe pivot to luxury cars... otherwise the result of the competition is already determined.

In 50 years China will have the same problem with other countries that produce even cheaper. That is already happening and for quite a few years already.

Taxes would probably be the best solution, but they have become politicised and weaponised.

Re: BYD overtakes Tesla and Kia as the best-selling EV brand in key overseas markets

#435

Post by tptacek »

threethirtytwo wrote: post #427
tptacek wrote: post #394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is obviously, fatuously untrue. The problem has nothing to do with uncertainty about the validity of IQ. The problem is that most countries don't routinely administer IQ tests. I'm always struck by Americans who make this claim, given that virtually nobody in the US is ever asked to take a real IQ test. I encourage you to cite the actual source you claim has authoritative "average IQ" scores broken down by count…

https://www.technotheoria.org//p/most-accurate-national-iqs-... from google. Also every measurement on google is remarkably inline with each other even though it's from sources that are noisy. A better way to put it. If you have 20 noisy/biased sources of data but each source is unique and gathered in distinct ways. And all 20 sources show a unique pattern of Asia beating the US... then it's quite likely, the consist…

Just skimming, and tell me if I'm wrong, but the preprint this article is about acknowledges the obvious fact that IQ tests are not generally administered across broad populations of countries and attempts to reconstruct IQ from available statistics of income, life expectancy, and educational attainment. I'm sure if I dig deeper into its cites we'll get back to the same online IQ quiz most of these IQ maps end up citing, too.

Re: BYD overtakes Tesla and Kia as the best-selling EV brand in key overseas markets

#436

Post by tpm »

joe_mamba wrote: post #258
WarmWash wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US it's practically a right of passage to be a young adult and very vocally hate the country, hate the government. In China you don't have a life in front of you if you do that.

>In the US it's practically a right of passage to be a young adult and very vocally hate the country, hate the government. Well, unless ICE murders you at a protest for expressing your hate of the government's actions. >In China you don't have a life in front of you if you do that. That's very much not true. China isn't North Korea like Westerners imagine. Unless you riot, take to the streets, or become a big agitato…

> China found a successful form of totalitarian governance, that some western governments are now trying to copy when they saw how effective it is.

They are certainly trying to copy some elements, but also some parts might be inevitable in the age of decentralised social media which are much harder to control using the old tools. China just enacted that first and the West had to go through all the turmoil to arrive in a similar place much later.

Re: BYD overtakes Tesla and Kia as the best-selling EV brand in key overseas markets

#437

Post by bdangubic »

watwut wrote: post #408
bdangubic wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what has become of America where we are now scared shitless of China... oh well, i is what it is... America our ancestors built would have been like bring it on bitches and here we are "oh please, lets not let China in, our companies are subpar and we stand no chance against such a foe...

America was always like that. The posturing of "bring it on bitches" does not imply reality of it. Ameruca had that attitude when it was more developped then competition. Ot was protectionist when it was less developped. And always used diplomacy and superpower status to push other countries into buying more american.

Perhaps but how did America get “more developed than competition”? Bangladesh cannot “use diplomacy and superpower status” to push other countries around…

Re: BYD overtakes Tesla and Kia as the best-selling EV brand in key overseas markets

#438

Post by tim333 »

dlev_pika wrote: post #216

I will always wonder what Tesla could have been, hadn’t Musk gone completely off rails around the time he was presenting the cybertruck’s vision. Remember when it was pitched at 40-50k?

It's kind of a shame.

Re: BYD overtakes Tesla and Kia as the best-selling EV brand in key overseas markets

#439

Post by tim333 »

FridayoLeary wrote: post #72

This is not surprising as other manufacturers continue moving away from producing cheap cars. One notable exception is dacia. For all the China lovers here it's not a clear sign of Chinese superiority. I saw a video on youtube recently exploring BYD. It's success is due to the fact that the Chinese government as part of their plan to dominate the global car industry gives them massive amounts of money. Which manufact…

They've been hyped up recently by that sort of thing but a lot of the success is built on a dedicated founder who is exceptional at building things and has been keeping at it for ages.

Vid of Munger saying Wang Chuanfu is great and he tried to talk him out of starting a car company in 2003 https://youtu.be/PbgqkAQ41mM?t=69

Re: BYD overtakes Tesla and Kia as the best-selling EV brand in key overseas markets

#440

Post by cpursley »

catigula wrote: post #185
cpursley wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your understanding of the situation is over a decade out of date. The Chinese are outright innovating at this point, they are well past the copy-paste stage. If you'd like to catch up, this is a good place to start: https://www.youtube.com/@Wheelsboy/videos And btw, they are making flying cars as well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBp96YGStIQ

Victim of propaganda.

Have you driven or ridden in a late model Chinese vehicle?
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