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College instructor turns to typewriters to curb AI-written work

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Re: College instructor turns to typewriters to curb AI-written work

#431
post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Syntax seems like a stupid thing to test in university level courses. That's trade school stuff. And I don't mean that as a criticism of trade schools, they just have a different focus.

Syntax is not the focus of your testing, but it’s often a pre-requisite to be clearly and accurately speaking the same language. Think not of taking off points for missing a semicolon but instead understanding the difference between the syntax for a method call and a property access. The different syntax conveys different meaning and so we should expect some basic level of accuracy to the language in question. At lea…

OK I'll bite. What's the difference between a method call and a property access? And why would that matter for pedagogical purposes?

Re: College instructor turns to typewriters to curb AI-written work

#432

When I did my Computer Science degree the vast majority of courses were 50% final, 30% midterm - even programming exams were hand written, proctored by TAs in class or in the gymnasium - assignments/labs/projects were a small part of your grade but if you didn’t do them the likelihood you’d pass the term exams was pretty darn low. We already had AI proof education.

Seems like anybody could just study 6 hours a day for the last month before the final, last 2 weeks before the mid term and use AI for everything else.

Re: College instructor turns to typewriters to curb AI-written work

#434
College education is all kinds of backwards if the goal was teaching students. If you aren't speaking day one of German find another teacher. In this case you are cheating yourself out of an education if you use a typewriter.

We have amazing tools through screens, but insist on using them as if they were the old tools and act surprised when they lead to worse outcomes. Each student could easily have a friend in Germany they speak to in real time if people actually cared about breaking down cultural barriers. Schools have never cared about education, their main purpose is control. Control of the narrative and control over your life.

Re: College instructor turns to typewriters to curb AI-written work

#435
post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's a shame that they are also way more susceptible to cheating with AI. They were more prone to cheating before AI, too. Cheating has always existed at some level, but from talking to my couple of friends who teach undergrad level courses the attitudes of students toward cheating have been changing even before AI was everywhere. They would complain about cohorts coming through where cheating was obvious and rampa…

Those students will go on to "cheat" in job interviews. And the sad thing is that many of them will never face any consequences because the majority of jobs at large companies don't require any actual competence. The college degree allows them to check a box on job applications but the jobs don't actually depend on anything learned in college.

Almost like most degrees may not be very useful (or worth the cost) to get in the first place.

Re: College instructor turns to typewriters to curb AI-written work

#436

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rather than banning the use of AI and trying to catch students who are cheating, why aren't they creating schoolwork that requires AI? It's an interesting debate, but I see several reasons not to. 1. As a human you need to learn gradually, e.g. in CS you need to learn the basics of programming before going into more complex stuff. If you embrace AI from the beginning, it can let you skip the basics (why would you cod…

The issue I have is that people are still trying to shove AI into a pre-AI educational paradigm. And yes, if you introduce AI into a world where people are still trying to teach kids the way that they were taught in the 20th century, AI looks like a threat because it allows kids to cheat, both testing and themselves. But we have the option to stop trying to teach kids the way that they were taught in the 20th century…

Have you tried to learn a new topic with ai? Not like, learn the answer to a fleeting question. An actual large topic one might take even a short course on.

I say because most of the experiments I have seen in this space have failed. Chatgpt education was quietly removed not that long ago. Khan academy recently said that their Khanmigo AI tutor was facing challenges because students don't want to use it. Its a long-standing observation in the field of education that the miracle of the internet, computers being ubiqutous, phones etc hasn't clearly resulted in improvements to education (theres some minor evidence for or against it, but no blindingly obvious effect)

I worked at one point in ed-tech and the longer I was there the more I realised that nobody wanted this. Students only used it if they were made to, teachers only did it if admins wanted, admins only did it if they were sold on it, and the sales people seemed to be the only people who actually thought it was helping anyone

People often seem to think that teaching is the process of neutrally presenting facts to a learner. That the better and more clear the facts are presented, the better. But any book can do that. The entire business of education, as it were, is the management of motivation in students. Exams function just as much as a tool in this as the institution of coming to a classroom at all, rather than sitting at home remote learning. You need a clear mind, distraction free - just bored enough to find the content acceptably appealing (content cannot be made more interesting).

The best things for education seem to be:

- getting enough sleep

- getting a good diet

- good exercise

- being around other people you respect who are also learning the content

- being around other people you respect who have already learned the content, and who you want to emulate

- having someone who visibly cares if you learn the content or not, who expresses and reinforces that they expect you to learn it. (both "you need to focus, stop messing around" but also "you are capable of this, its hard but I know you personally can do it")

- having a good reason to want to learn the content

- having time pressure to learn the content

note that literally none of this regards the actual presentation of the content. Books have existed for centuries. A well motivated learner with all of the above will find the content. That is in no way the problem

An argument might be "but why, given all of this, are teachers actually teaching, why arent they standing up and lecturing soley about the importance of learning the content" and to some extent thats fair (although lecturing does satisfy some of the above if you think about it), but they ALSO tend to assign reading, link to further resources etc. Probably half or more of teachers speaking time is given over to procedural stuff working towards the above goals. Explaining the process of upcoming exams, worksheets, homeworks that need to be done (time pressure), demonstrating their love and knowledge of the subject (people you respect who know the content), building rapport with students (people you respect), holding people to account/motivating, explaining why the content is important, and trying to build good habits in their students (organising study groups, project work, dealing with problems and creating distraction free conditions)

AI are a poor facsimile of the above. Though they may try to replicate it, their inherent lack of physicality and humanity makes much of the power lose its effect. I dont care if a chatbot is disappointed in me. I'm not inspired by a chatbot that claims enthusiasm about a subject. I don't care if a chatbot tells me I absolutely must do this by next week else ill be left behind (behind who?).

Re: College instructor turns to typewriters to curb AI-written work

#437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>only time in your life when you are surrounded by experts who will spend an hour a week answering any questions you can think of. Why is that a resource of "once-in-a-lifetime" scarcity in the first place?

Because It’s really expensive, time consuming, and difficult to gather exports together like that. The closest anyone comes to research university is national laboratory, or something like Bell Labs. But you’re unlikely to have access to those. And you’re unlikely to ever have another time in your life when you can take 4 years to devote almost solely to learning.

Yes exactly, why are those things the case?

Re: College instructor turns to typewriters to curb AI-written work

#438
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should look up the history of the Loebner Prize [1]. There’s a shocking amount of technological development in some chatbots that went toward simulating mistakes and typing patterns to make them seem more human-like. In some of the later Loebner competitions, when text was transmitted to the human character by character, the bot would even simulate typos followed by backspacing on screen to make it look more real…

Wow it feels like the Loebner prize went away right at the dawn of the LLM. Is it correlated?

Hi. I got a notification for this message in my email, so thought I'd reply. My name is Steve Worswick and I won the Loebner Prize a record 5 times with my entry Mitsuku between 2013 to the last contest in 2019. The Loebner Prize didn't take part in 2020 due to Covid restrictions and never started back up again. This along with the death of Hugh Loebner and the resulting end of his sponsorship is why the contest ended. LLMs started to become more popular in 2020 but this was pure coincidence.

Re: College instructor turns to typewriters to curb AI-written work

#439
post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My networking final in high school was probably my favorite test taking experience - there was a small written portion on eg subnets, but the bulk of our grade was setting up a physical network, testing it, and leaving the room. Our teacher sabotaged three parts of our network - could be hardware, router misconfiguration, etc. when we came in we had iirc 20-ish minutes to diagnose and fix it. The best was when she ba…

That sounds like the CCIE.

yeah was gonna say.

sounds like some of the technical exams i'ev taken, and/or one or two job interviews

Re: College instructor turns to typewriters to curb AI-written work

#440

A lot of people in this thread are talking about how they did in-person exams, handwritten problem sets in class, etc. This kind of thing is more challenging in the humanities, where the research paper is kind of our bread and butter. A lot of us have since turned to different kinds of assignments, but I am not ready to forego research papers in favor of blue book exams. I think there's some value in having to develo…

My undergrad was in humanities - we had multiple essays to submit throughout the year but they only counted for ~10% of the final grade, with the rest through an in person exam paper.

It was just expected that you had a grasp of the literature enough that you could argue off-the-cuff in the exam setting, and then you were given leeway if you didn't have exact Harvard style notations to exact date/titles of referenced material.

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