Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Maine is about to become the first state to ban major new data centers

gadgetreview.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

431–440 of 464 posts

Re: Maine is about to become the first state to ban major new data centers

#431

Post by perrygeo »

I understand the resistance to data centers. They have local environmental impacts, raise energy prices, and generally funnel wealth away from the area. But that's not inherit - it's the result of policies and subsidies.

Instead of banning, why not put the REAL price tag on it? Require local employment. Stop subsidizing infrastructure. Start taxing them. If a data center came in and provided jobs, paid their own way without handouts, and lowered electricity costs, it might be a different story.

It's not data centers per se. It's the crony capitalism that subsidizes them and lets them extract wealth without oversight. Regulate it properly and the negative characteristics go away. And yes, putting the actual price tag on it might scare away most investors - an effective ban. But that's the market working efficiently on price signals.

Re: Maine is about to become the first state to ban major new data centers

#432

Post by jeffbee »

nradov wrote: post #323
pj_mukh wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Neither Maine nor New Hampshire voters are "bozos" for voting it down. " I mean yes, that is how the Tragedy of the Commons works. Everyone individually makes the optimal decision for themselves but in effect you've basically hamstrung green sources of energy around the country by being very smart for your own state. The question is, should you be allowed to this.

Maybe Massachusetts should have offered Maine some incentive for running the power line through their territory. States make agreements like that all the time.

The line serves both states. Maine and Massachusetts are both in ISONE territory.

Re: Maine is about to become the first state to ban major new data centers

#433

Post by throwaway27448 »

Bratmon wrote: post #224
throwaway27448 wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Mainers hate seeing wind and solar plants- they consider them to be a massive eyesore. I mean, some do... this implies a terrible politician to not address the material concerns of Mainers though.

Data centers don't really help the material conditions of Mainers though. Here's the net effects of new data centers they'll really see, in material terms: - A brief boost in construction jobs - ~0 new jobs in the long term - Increased electricity prices - A slight chance of very slightly lower taxes, as data center taxes partially replace taxes on other stuff It's not like the average Mainer is losing a lot from thi…

> Data centers don't really help the material conditions of Mainers though.

No, but solar and wind farms certainly do.

Re: Maine is about to become the first state to ban major new data centers

#434

Post by marcosdumay »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #385
marcosdumay wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Railroads were incredibly useful for the entire population.

Lots of people are being placated/medicated with stupid AI generated memes being forwarded on Whatsapp/Facebook/Instagram/TikTok/Reddit/Snapchat.

Looks like they are not placated enough to keep from demanding their politicians to stop the buildup.

Re: Maine is about to become the first state to ban major new data centers

#435

Post by marcosdumay »

justonceokay wrote: post #276
marcosdumay wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that why the US's GDP is currently booming into infinity? Or is it only responsible for their unprecedented median standard of living?

You don’t understand it hasn’t trickled down yet

New products do often spread from rich people into the general population.

That's just irrelevant, because people react to what those things are today, not what they can hypothetically be in the future.

Re: Maine is about to become the first state to ban major new data centers

#436

Post by skeaker »

pj_mukh wrote: post #307
piker wrote: post #3

Such a law illustrates the beauty of federalism. Texas and other states can have them if they want them! Maine has not nearly as much space and much more natural beauty to protect [per square mile], so it can and maybe should have a different set of rules. That's cool.

This is a recipe for creating dead retiree states. Just NIMBY everything, NIMBY the power sources[1] [2], then complain about a lack of power so NIMBY any type of new industrial . Now do this for housing, new sources of water anything a person younger than 40 would need and you basically get a state full of retirees..and oh would you look at that! [3]. Now the question is, why wouldn't all states eventually do this w…

Surely you understand how a data center is different from housing?

Re: Maine is about to become the first state to ban major new data centers

#437

Post by sershe »

DrewADesign wrote: post #283
sershe wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't this also apply to new housing? Strain on services per job created is probably even higher. The benefits are for someone currently not living here, just like data centers used for remote users. And if cheaper housing is available obnoxious poor people might move in. I think there should be a moratorium. Not in my backyard!

I’m not sure who you’d expect to sway equating data centers to east coast urban housing during a giant, sustained housing crisis, but your obviously disingenuous argument is completely ridiculous.

At least my comment is not completely content free. How is it different?

First, the gp comment says the data center is not good for existing residents - obviously true for housing too, which you didn't refute.

Then it assumes statewide ban should be based on personal preference of local residents. That is just a definition of nimbyism. While in reality I am a YIMBY and the end was part sarcasm, I would genuinely prefer living next to a data center, rather than next to non immigrant poor in the US. I grew up lower middle class or poor by US standards, and also live in Seattle, lots of experience. So I say along with data centers we have a statewide ban on anyone who is lifetime net consumer of tax money anywhere near my backyard.

Re: Maine is about to become the first state to ban major new data centers

#438

Post by bryan_w »

harimau777 wrote: post #280
km3r wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not just require factories /data centers invest in solar/wind/renewables to cover their power usage. Banning is so childish when there is easy solutions.

Can we trust them to actually do it? Not to find some loophole? Or to wait until they are established and then lobby to have the requirement removed?

Can we trust them to not build the data center anyways? If you think companies always get their way, then a ban is useless, as they will just do it anyways.

If on the other hand, believe in the rule of law, then creating a good airtight law that sets the stipulations that would be needed before building a data center is what lawmakers should be doing

Re: Maine is about to become the first state to ban major new data centers

#439

Post by mrguyorama »

pj_mukh wrote: post #307
piker wrote: post #3

Such a law illustrates the beauty of federalism. Texas and other states can have them if they want them! Maine has not nearly as much space and much more natural beauty to protect [per square mile], so it can and maybe should have a different set of rules. That's cool.

This is a recipe for creating dead retiree states. Just NIMBY everything, NIMBY the power sources[1] [2], then complain about a lack of power so NIMBY any type of new industrial . Now do this for housing, new sources of water anything a person younger than 40 would need and you basically get a state full of retirees..and oh would you look at that! [3]. Now the question is, why wouldn't all states eventually do this w…

The transmission line wasn't a power source for Maine. None of the power it carried would be sold to Maine.

Meanwhile CMP slow rolls connections to all the new Solar farms starting up trying to help our expensive power situation.

Re: Maine is about to become the first state to ban major new data centers

#440

Post by mrguyorama »

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #343
culi wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the opposite of NIMBY. It's smart thoughtful policy and it is NOT a simple ban. Nobody bothers to read passed the title but the main piece of this legislation is the creation of the Maine Data Center Coordination Council. Alongside it is a temporary (until Nov 2027) moratorium on data centers over 20 megawatts. This seems to be in place so they could establish a proper legal and environmental framework for build…

Is a data center worse than an iron smelter or aluminum refiner? The negative backlash is way out of proportion to the actual harm of a light industrial activity with minimal pollution. Put in requirements for responsible caps on electricity usage and ban "temporary" generators so they don't get a backdoor public subsidy on their power consumption. The market will sort the rest out.

Data centers do not produce many jobs, and in return it will put more demand on our power grid which is one of the most expensive in the nation. Instead of building new large power consumers, we should be forcing CMP to connect up the tens of solar projects looking to contribute to our grid.

It's not like we actually hurt for a "Tech" industry. Southern Maine has a lot more "tech: jobs than you would expect for being an old as hell and poor state.

Post reply on HN