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Škoda DuoBell: A bicycle bell that penetrates noise-cancelling headphones

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Re: Škoda DuoBell: A bicycle bell that penetrates noise-cancelling headphones

#431
post #234

Coincidentally, I bought a 12v car horn yesterday with the intent of wiring it into my ebike's power supply with a little button on my handlebars. Not because of other cyclists or pedestrians wearing (anc) headphones but because modern cars are so heavily sound-proofed they don't hear a bicycle bell anymore. A recent incident with an inattentive taxi driver in a brand new EV nearly flattening me prompted me to want t…

Squeeze horns are usually loud enough to be heard by cars in my experience.

Re: Škoda DuoBell: A bicycle bell that penetrates noise-cancelling headphones

#432
post #234

Coincidentally, I bought a 12v car horn yesterday with the intent of wiring it into my ebike's power supply with a little button on my handlebars. Not because of other cyclists or pedestrians wearing (anc) headphones but because modern cars are so heavily sound-proofed they don't hear a bicycle bell anymore. A recent incident with an inattentive taxi driver in a brand new EV nearly flattening me prompted me to want t…

I want to see a bike with a train horn. Cars do it all the time. [1][2][3][4] illegal and highly satisfying

People have used drills+pumps to drive similar hand-held horns at football games so it is doable.

[1] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOKgg5iCw_c

[2] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enF0m6J7g2w [Tiny car with train horn]

[3] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w31s5NsoOyg

[4] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLfD1AFsb1I

Re: Škoda DuoBell: A bicycle bell that penetrates noise-cancelling headphones

#433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A horn or bell is mostly for telling other people "hey I'm here, stay out of my way and dont suddenly cross into my path" My opinion as a cyclist is that I should basically only be using my bell on pedestrians when the pedestrians are wandering onto the bike lane. If im cycling through a shared space, I find it extremely rude to ring the bell, because it feels like I'm telling people to get out of my way, but they ha…

>My opinion as a cyclist is that I should basically only be using my bell on pedestrians when the pedestrians are wandering onto the bike lane. If im cycling through a shared space, I find it extremely rude to ring the bell, because it feels like I'm telling people to get out of my way, but they have just as much right to a shared path as I do. The culture around this varies a lot. I'm in Melbourne, Australia. Virtua…

It's legally mandated in my city so I guess the polite thing to do is ring a bell, you know, just stick to the protocol, for everyone's sake. A bell however seems at least as likely to startle someone into behaving erratically as not.

As far as the pedestrian's safety is concerned what matters is either giving them a wide berth or slowing right down when passing.

Whether on a bike or not I'm sick of all the modern world's beeping and ringing and buzzing and blaring and if I'm wearing noise cancelling headphones that means I don't want to hear it. Don't tell you're being annoying for my own good because you aren't.

Re: Škoda DuoBell: A bicycle bell that penetrates noise-cancelling headphones

#434

[flagged]

this was not really an issue before food delivery apps came into fashion btw. kids up until certain age can pretty much in all countries ride bike legally on sidewalk, are there any countries where 8yo can't ride bike on sidewalk?

It's a problem in the US where bicycle food delivery is really rare. Even in places with good bike lanes, they'll often prefer the sidewalk because if there is some sort of obstacle in the bike lane (e.g. a car that parked illegally), it won't jump out of the way for them like a pedestrian with a sense of self-preservation, which would mean they might have to slow down.

Re: Škoda DuoBell: A bicycle bell that penetrates noise-cancelling headphones

#435

I'm very sceptical of their claims that ~780Hz is in some way special, especially the way they represent it graphically. Playing a frequency sweep while wearing WH-1000XM3 headphones, I don't notice any particular drop-off there. Near where I live, heavy goods vehicles are fitted with reversing indicators that make a "cshh cshh cshh" sound i.e. pulsed white-noise. White noise like that is the hardest for ANC to cance…

Right? This feels like an "arms race" similar to scraping vs. anti-scraping; countermeasures will be developed, likely due to the action of actors entirely disconnected from what you're doing, but to block something else in the ecosystem... and you'll need to re-engineer your approach entirely. Rinse and repeat.

(The amount of innovation in anti-anti-scraping that's resulted from "sneaker bots" - automated scalping of limited-edition shoe releases - is astounding, and somewhat relevant here in how an environment can become adversarial in ways that impact broad ecosystems. I suppose the equivalent here would be environmental ads that seek to penetrate noise-cancellation in a similar way.)

I suppose, though, that all this is good news for a company that wants to turn your bicycle bell into a subscription product!

Re: Škoda DuoBell: A bicycle bell that penetrates noise-cancelling headphones

#436

I'm very sceptical of their claims that ~780Hz is in some way special, especially the way they represent it graphically. Playing a frequency sweep while wearing WH-1000XM3 headphones, I don't notice any particular drop-off there. Near where I live, heavy goods vehicles are fitted with reversing indicators that make a "cshh cshh cshh" sound i.e. pulsed white-noise. White noise like that is the hardest for ANC to cance…

The construction site next door is using those vehicles, and they're also a lot more pleasant throughout the day. It's easier to tune out white noise than beeping. The first cshh is a little louder than the others, which is a nice design touch.

Speak for yourself, I can tune out a steady beep much easier than the sound of a seagull being strangled to death. (That's what the ones around here sound like anyway.)

On a more serious note: the loud beeping backup alarms were DESIGNED to be annoying and difficult to miss. I would not be surprised in the least if a study showed these "less annoying" backup alarms correlating to a higher number of children being run over by reversing vehicles.

Re: Škoda DuoBell: A bicycle bell that penetrates noise-cancelling headphones

#437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get your point about not wanting to reduce speed, but it's worth considering how the law might react in a worse-case scenario. Here in the UK, there was an infamous case of Charlie Alliston who ended up getting a ridiculous 18 months prison sentence after colliding with a pedestrian who hit her head and subsequently died. He was riding a "fixie" without a front brake and was cycling at around 18mph through some gre…

I don't know, the sentence doesn't sound ridiculous if you're cycliing at 18mph towards someone, without a front brake, and your precaution is "it's OK, I can guess which way they're going to go".

The sentence was very harsh compared to lots of drivers who have killed people in far worse ways. I don't want to excuse him as he was also a complete arsehole on social media after the collision and his cycling was reckless. The lesson is that even if you think you have priority, you have to do all that you can to avoid hitting someone.

Re: Škoda DuoBell: A bicycle bell that penetrates noise-cancelling headphones

#438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A horn or bell is mostly for telling other people "hey I'm here, stay out of my way and dont suddenly cross into my path" My opinion as a cyclist is that I should basically only be using my bell on pedestrians when the pedestrians are wandering onto the bike lane. If im cycling through a shared space, I find it extremely rude to ring the bell, because it feels like I'm telling people to get out of my way, but they ha…

>My opinion as a cyclist is that I should basically only be using my bell on pedestrians when the pedestrians are wandering onto the bike lane. If im cycling through a shared space, I find it extremely rude to ring the bell, because it feels like I'm telling people to get out of my way, but they have just as much right to a shared path as I do. The culture around this varies a lot. I'm in Melbourne, Australia. Virtua…

my own experience is that in the city the bell was to alert people that I think aren't paying attention to me and may be about to step into the bike lane. 100% like you said, I'm letting someone know I'm there

Now that I moved to the country with a comprehensive rails-to-trail network, I thank all the cyclists that use the bell to let me know they're coming up behind me. What really irks me is the dudes going 30+mph silently coming up behind me, passing less than 2' from my dog (who is at my side) when there's PLENTY of room to give me space. No, we can't hear them coming all the time. Yes, it's startling, rude, and dangerous for all of us.

Re: Škoda DuoBell: A bicycle bell that penetrates noise-cancelling headphones

#439
post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, I hate it when I'm on my bike on a bike path, and someone walks their dog, leash fully extended across the bike path, they are looking down on their phone and wearing headphones. Absolute selfishness.

On bike paths, totally agree with you. On shared paths, nobody owes you that speed.

...what speed? No one mentioned any speed.

Re: Škoda DuoBell: A bicycle bell that penetrates noise-cancelling headphones

#440

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>My opinion as a cyclist is that I should basically only be using my bell on pedestrians when the pedestrians are wandering onto the bike lane. If im cycling through a shared space, I find it extremely rude to ring the bell, because it feels like I'm telling people to get out of my way, but they have just as much right to a shared path as I do. The culture around this varies a lot. I'm in Melbourne, Australia. Virtua…

I've always wanted two horns in my car: one that toots with a smile and a tip of the hat, and one that heralds your pending demise. It sounds like Australia cycle bell culture does that with short vs. long bell ding-a-lings. Which is kind of how it has worked with cars, except I find that more and more cars have a style of horn that's hard to control with the necessary precision. Maybe this is Canadian culture but I…

I can corroborate this finding -- I think the horn switch is just a logic-level digital switch going into one or more MCUs somewhere, subjected to all manner of latency and (probably) CANBUS jitter. It's not great. Trying to send Morse, or even a quick 'toot toot' results in a garbled mangled mess, and I find that very annoying. My early cars & motorbike had what felt like direct, switched control over power to the horn, those were great to use. I've debated installing a dedicated pushbutton rated for the amperage or at least controlling a solenoid somewhere that would power the horn.

As an experiment, I've found that you can reliably detect the presence of crummy horn control by trying to pulse the horn for the shortest amount of time possible. The shorter my push on the horn button gets, the more likely it is that the timing will feel wrong somehow, or the horn doesn't even sound at all.

I've definitely tried friendly beeps at friends or neighbors and it came out sounding like an angry honk.

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