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Wine 11 rewrites how Linux runs Windows games at kernel with massive speed gains

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Re: Wine 11 rewrites how Linux runs Windows games at kernel with massive speed gains

#431

Post by samus »

guzfip wrote: post #386
wishfish wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not only do the CRUDs have value but they're good for your sanity. I knew a guy back in the dot-com era. Very skilled coder. Backbone of the company. He pulled off miracles. Fulfilled impossible deadlines. Then one day, out of the blue, he quit. Took a job at a non-technical corp. They put him in a cubicle where he wrote Visual Basic CRUDs on an 8-5 schedule. No weird deadlines, no sleeping under the desk. He called…

> They put him in a cubicle where he wrote Visual Basic CRUDs on an 8-5 schedule. No weird deadlines, no sleeping under the desk. He called it his paid vacation. That was all nice and good for a while, but the times are ending. I suspect there will still be a human involved in the production of software, but it will be domain experts, not CRUd monkeys who picked up just enough domain knowledge to be dangerous.

The really valuable CRUD monkeys are already domain experts as well. The threatened ones are junior developers whose output is barely better than AI slop.

Re: Wine 11 rewrites how Linux runs Windows games at kernel with massive speed gains

#432

Post by moring »

moralestapia wrote: post #412
moring wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Requires PayPal or credit card. The suggestion was to pay with your Steam Wallet or whatever payment method already used when you buy a Proton-based game on Steam.

Can you have a Steam Wallet without having a credit card?

Yes, I do. It just means that you have to manually "recharge" your Steam wallet when it runs low. That's some effort, but it limits the possible damage if something goes wrong.

Re: Wine 11 rewrites how Linux runs Windows games at kernel with massive speed gains

#433

Post by childintime »

mft_ wrote: post #161

This is great. Not to sound snarky, but now please get it to run Microsoft Office. I'd argue that this is the last barrier to many, many people being able to use Linux full-time for business purposes.

I'd consider using it as Windows replacement. Exclusively Windows, as I don't care for the Linux applications, or anything Linux, at all. I don't enjoy being an admin, and the system is more stable without package management. Linux is a fossil from the age of the admin, best used today to emulate Windows, just like it runs under Android, as a HAL. If so, 2026 could be the year of the Linux desktop!

ReactOS is always almost there.. except it doesn't quite get there; same goes for Wine, as they have a lot in common?

Re: Wine 11 rewrites how Linux runs Windows games at kernel with massive speed gains

#434

Post by BatteryMountain »

cpx86 wrote: post #428
BatteryMountain wrote: post #309

Steam devs if you are reading this: add a checkbox on your checkout screen that will allow me to donate 10% or a flat amount with each purchase, that will go directly to your upstream opensource dependencies like Wine & friends. I would add money to each purchase without blinking to support these people and I think the correct place for this is at the steam checkout screen, in the case for gamers.

When it comes to Wine, aren't they already doing this? Steam develops Proton in cooperation with CodeWeavers, who are the main sponsors of Wine, and parts of that work is upstreamed to the Wine project. The NTSYNC patch from what I can tell was also submitted by a CodeWeavers employee, so it doesn't seem far-fetched to say that Steam probably contributed to making this happen in Wine.

There are many other open source projects that gets used that never sees the spotlight like Wine does, but they are crucial too. Think audio codecs & processing, compression libs, networking libs, even sqlite. Our society depends on these projects too but there are too much friction for normal people to contribute to them (if they are even aware). Steam checkout is a low friction surface where normal people spend time. A small optional checkbox at the bottom with a two sentence explanation or link to a blog post to explain where the money goes, will add minimal new friction while giving people the opportunity to contribute to something meaningful. I think many gamers (esp adult ones) knows what open source means and they will actually contribute now & then. Fund allocations must be transparent (crucial!) so people can see where the money went.

Re: Wine 11 rewrites how Linux runs Windows games at kernel with massive speed gains

#435

Post by duttish »

ACS_Solver wrote: post #162
computomatic wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I avoided using Wine (and Linux for gaming generally) for years on the sole basis that I assumed what they were trying to do was impossible to do well. Occasionally I’d try wine for some simple game and be impressed it worked at all, but refused to admit to myself that it was something I could rely on. (This was many years ago and I freely admit today that I was wrong.)

Valve's Proton (so Wine + DXVK + some other additions) revolutionized gaming on Linux. I play games both for fun and work, and for a solid 3+ years now, gaming on Linux has been an "it just works" experience for me, and should be for most games that don't use kernel-level anticheat.

It's reached the level where a game not working is a suprise.

Space Marine 2 was the latest one for me, but Steam is great at refunds if you do it quickly enough.

Re: Wine 11 rewrites how Linux runs Windows games at kernel with massive speed gains

#436

Post by tosti »

dingdingdang wrote: post #411
RunningDroid wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is there any way I can use the Wine project to facilitate this compiling and running straight under x11/linux environment as a integrated project that doesn't require the end user to fiddle with Wine? I don't mind bundling shared code as needed. Help appreciated, I tried hard and failed at this endeavour priorly. I believe that's what Winelib is for: https://gitlab.winehq.org/wine/wine/-/wikis/Winelib-User's-G...

Yep. that's the route I tried before, no good, maybe it's just that the documentation is past it's sell by date, maybe it's lack of community use.. I'm just not seeing it. Even the article itself describes how to make an exe file... that will then work in Linux? Or is it simply a program that's easier to run on Wine? Loads of text with unclear details throughout it.

To make an elf, you use gcc. To make an exe, you use mingw.

The rest should be a matter of include and linker paths, but that's all I can recall right now.

Re: Wine 11 rewrites how Linux runs Windows games at kernel with massive speed gains

#437

Post by tremon »

damentz wrote: post #247
akdev1l wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>These extreme gains are the result of benching against vanilla without fsync, which is what anyone gaming on linux uses Not for anyone using a kernel without these patches. Which would be most people.

Unless you are running an ancient LTS distribution, you at least have fsync. But then also recognize, with the ancient LTS distribution not carrying any enhancements for the last few years, your drivers are also out of date and games will play terribly for unrelated reasons.

"Have fsync" is not a sufficient requirement. You need a kernel with windows-compatible fsync patches, and many distributions do not ship those.

Re: Wine 11 rewrites how Linux runs Windows games at kernel with massive speed gains

#438

Post by tracker1 »

samus wrote: post #424
computomatic wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I avoided using Wine (and Linux for gaming generally) for years on the sole basis that I assumed what they were trying to do was impossible to do well. Occasionally I’d try wine for some simple game and be impressed it worked at all, but refused to admit to myself that it was something I could rely on. (This was many years ago and I freely admit today that I was wrong.)

It's an unfair fear since architecturally Wine sits at the same position as the Win32 API on Windows, which also in the end merely uses the underlying native system calls. The only difference is that Linux aims to keep its system call interface stable.

You're saying that Windows' system interfaces aren't stable? In comparison to Linux?

Re: Wine 11 rewrites how Linux runs Windows games at kernel with massive speed gains

#439

Post by tracker1 »

tom_alexander wrote: post #133
ThrowawayB7 wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, Microsoft does still sell MS Office 2024 as a one time purchase: - https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-365/p/office-home-... - https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-365/p/office-home-...

Outlook is a business exclusive these days?! Outlook used to be included in the most basic version of office back when I still used microsoft office.

They've really shifted how Outlook works... as well as how the backend is more tuned to the way M365 mail works far more than how it used to work with Exchange, or independently. It's been a slow downslide imo since around 2007 or so.

I know the why, but it's really worse as an experience for most people than the older integrations... but the use of horizontally scalable backends makes for a saner platform at the expense of better UX.

Re: Wine 11 rewrites how Linux runs Windows games at kernel with massive speed gains

#440

Post by cpx86 »

BatteryMountain wrote: post #434
cpx86 wrote: post #428

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When it comes to Wine, aren't they already doing this? Steam develops Proton in cooperation with CodeWeavers, who are the main sponsors of Wine, and parts of that work is upstreamed to the Wine project. The NTSYNC patch from what I can tell was also submitted by a CodeWeavers employee, so it doesn't seem far-fetched to say that Steam probably contributed to making this happen in Wine.

There are many other open source projects that gets used that never sees the spotlight like Wine does, but they are crucial too. Think audio codecs & processing, compression libs, networking libs, even sqlite. Our society depends on these projects too but there are too much friction for normal people to contribute to them (if they are even aware). Steam checkout is a low friction surface where normal people spend tim…

Oh absolutely, I would welcome some way of sponsoring such projects in general. I just meant to highlight that for this particular feature and project, there is already a form of sponsorship happening.
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