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Ageless Linux – Software for humans of indeterminate age

agelesslinux.org

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Re: Ageless Linux – Software for humans of indeterminate age

#431

Post by alpaca128 »

tstrimple wrote: post #366
pocksuppet wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The former also makes it illegal for internet things to demand your ID to know if you're over 18. They have to trust the setting.

Honestly I don't think it's worth trying to engage with these people anymore. They sat silent while websites were asking for license uploads. They were silent while discord asked for face scans. They are outraged that California is trying to setup a system to bypass more privacy violating schemes. They are either illiterate or they know that this is a better solution and prefer the draconian ones.

Assuming that these people (like me?) are "illiterate" and evil and didn't speak out about worse problems because they happen to disagree with this specific (also terrible) development is not a very charitable interpretation.

But I agree it's not worth trying to engage with that kind of rhetoric.

Re: Ageless Linux – Software for humans of indeterminate age

#432

Post by kgwxd »

nextos wrote: post #14

Something remarkable and unsettling is how the age verification debate has popped up almost simultaneously in the US, UK, and EU. With the same logical fallacies. Pretty telling about how transnational lobbies and their interests work. Controlling what children do online is a solved problem: Parenting and parental control applications.

With every law we allowed in the name of child safety, we enabled the real goal, control. They barely have to even mention children in the new laws beyond "we have to legally cover ourselves against all the other child safety laws already in place."

Re: Ageless Linux – Software for humans of indeterminate age

#433

Post by alpaca128 »

pocksuppet wrote: post #196
alpaca128 wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a very dishonest way of framing these laws. Parental control does not need violating the privacy of every computer user. Also sharing the user's personal information does not prevent gambling or protect children, it does the opposite.

These laws don't violate the privacy of every computer user. They say that a parent shall be able to mark a child's account as being under 18, and apps shall respect that.

Assuming apps for which this is relevant respect users and specifically children in this day and age sounds naive. It's another free datapoint to collect, in the best case for targeted ads.

Meta seems to be behind a lot of lobbying for this and they're the kind of company who does nonconsensual psychological experiments on their users: https://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2014/06/28/facebook...

Re: Ageless Linux – Software for humans of indeterminate age

#434

Post by tosti »

whatshisface wrote: post #382
nextos wrote: post #14

Something remarkable and unsettling is how the age verification debate has popped up almost simultaneously in the US, UK, and EU. With the same logical fallacies. Pretty telling about how transnational lobbies and their interests work. Controlling what children do online is a solved problem: Parenting and parental control applications.

I estimate we have two to three years in the English-speaking world to organize an effective lobby for the rights of the common man before changes to the speech environment and habitual methods of communication make it impossible. There's less than a year before the wave of lock-downs reaches normal internet users through announced policies like the Android software installation ban and through the growing effectiven…

The cloudflare thing is insane.

Like overnight a while ago, normal everyday websites are suddenly inaccessible (yes I have JS on, no it won't work.) Sometimes only the first page loads.

Can't complain to CF either, because that too is walled off by their non-functional robot detector.

Re: Ageless Linux – Software for humans of indeterminate age

#435

Post by enoint »

lambda wrote: post #304
spigottoday wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm confused. What's the age definition of child? 12, 15, 18? Does this mean its against the law for children to install an operating system? What is the penalty for a child doing this and putting the wrong age or just doing it at all? What is the penalty for a parent or guardian of the child that does this? What happens to the parent or child if the child circumvents this control? Will child services be involved? Cr…

Here's the law: https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billTextClient.xhtm... It requires that operating systems provide a way, at account setup, to specify the age or birthdate of a user, and provides an API for indicating which age range the user falls in (under 13, 13 to 16, 16 to 18, or over 18) to an application, so the application can use that information to comply with any laws or regulations relating to the…

You put a lot of effort into understanding it. Will Docker images need API passthrough? Will Debian need to solve its location for the purposes of deciding its legal exposure?

I don’t see why we should burden OSes this way. An App Store does all that better.

Re: Ageless Linux – Software for humans of indeterminate age

#436

Post by stephbook »

rkagerer wrote: post #223

I'm so glad I grew up in an age before all this bullshit, when I could do all the same things on a computer an adult could (and frankly, more). I never would have developed the knowledge and skills that led to my career in such a stifled environment as we are setting our kids up in today.

I'm also glad I got to experience phpBB message boards, justin.tv and a Facebook that was about friends.

But nowadays you get Discord servers with IS propaganda and twitch.tv is full of prostitutes. Facebook is "the feed", scoured by corporations, full of idealized vacation photos and Russian propaganda.

The old days are not coming back and doing nothing will lead to a further deterioration of the internet landscape.

Re: Ageless Linux – Software for humans of indeterminate age

#437

Post by tim333 »

prohobo wrote: post #385
nextos wrote: post #14

Something remarkable and unsettling is how the age verification debate has popped up almost simultaneously in the US, UK, and EU. With the same logical fallacies. Pretty telling about how transnational lobbies and their interests work. Controlling what children do online is a solved problem: Parenting and parental control applications.

I'm completely baffled why anyone still engages with the "official" framing around this. Obviously, it's not for protecting children. Obviously, it's a technocratic trojan horse for increasing surveillance capabilities on digital systems. This is so cynically anti-democratic that they obfuscate the real purpose, don't even bother to make it plausible, and everyone is left talking about how "awful it is" that it's alr…

That doesn't really with with the voting. AB 1043 passed 58-0 in the Cali state assembly which is mostly normal democrats. Those people aren't thinking ha ha ha our evil plans are working. They are thinking let protect kids. I'm skeptical of your obviouslys.

Re: Ageless Linux – Software for humans of indeterminate age

#438

Post by enoint »

throw10920 wrote: post #286
matheusmoreira wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do it regardless. If you're right other people will realize that. If not, they won't.

> If you're right other people will realize that. If not, they won't. That literally does not answer the GP's question. You're just an anarchist. We can save a lot of steps if you just state that outright.

The book of Isaiah tells us to denounce unjust law. And the book of Matthew tells us to recognize Caesar’s secular authority. Anarchism is not the only explanation.

Re: Ageless Linux – Software for humans of indeterminate age

#439

Post by tosti »

s__s wrote: post #212
nextos wrote: post #14

Something remarkable and unsettling is how the age verification debate has popped up almost simultaneously in the US, UK, and EU. With the same logical fallacies. Pretty telling about how transnational lobbies and their interests work. Controlling what children do online is a solved problem: Parenting and parental control applications.

It’s not a solved problem at all. Your take is very libertarian, which I personally sympathize with, but if we’re being honest it doesn’t align with reality. The truth is, there are a lot of bad parents that are, for various reasons, unable to perform these parental duties. We’ve always restricted children from accessing certain things without relying solely on their parent’s abilities or discretion. I’m strongly in…

Those parents were kids in their youth. Their kids may become parents someday.

This is the mechanism that allows for a recovery process to occur naturally.

Politicians have a limited duty cycle which entices them to act like the world is on fire. It's not. The real problems (deforestation, poverty, corruption to name a few) are mostly invisible to them.

Re: Ageless Linux – Software for humans of indeterminate age

#440

Post by enoint »

somat wrote: post #193

It is a stupid law but I feel people are overthinking this. For compliance the os has to provide an age category to an application and an interface for the user to enter this data. We already have an api to provide information to applications. it's called the filesystem. and an interface to enter the data, that's called the shell. so everything is already there. If the user lives in california and wants to be complia…

How should maintainers think about it?

Without that file, I hope the age category generalizes to 0. Also, I suppose the file’s ctime should be subtracted from localtime and added to the age, but maybe not if the special value 0 was entered.

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