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France dumps Zoom and Teams as Europe seeks digital autonomy from the US

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Re: France dumps Zoom and Teams as Europe seeks digital autonomy from the US

#431

Post by asnyder »

firefoxd wrote: post #34

After an acquisition, we are transitioning from google meet and slack, to Teams. I used to hate slack so much with their random features popping left and right and menus moving around. Oh I didn't know how good we had it. Slack is a delight compared to Teams. And I'm not even alone in this, everyone is still using slack until it gets pried off our hands. So help me God anyone mentions Copilot one more time...

Despite their confusion as to whether they want to really support their free and open source versions (without some absurd user count cliff), Mattermost (https://mattermost.com) is quite excellent and IMO is better than Slack. For example, editor leans towards native Markdown so things like syntax highlighting with backticks work as you expect.

Their recent update removed the paywall from SSO (and unfortunately the Gitlab SSO workaround) for social logins up to 100 seats, afterwards there's an absurd per seat cost similar to its non-open source brethren. One day if needed, I plan to drop-in an SSO middleman allowing anyone to leverage their own SSO layer (which will map to the login form with username/password) to avoid the SSO limits altogether. Though good enough for my needs, and likely yours too. Especially if you're open to paying for their seats.

Re: France dumps Zoom and Teams as Europe seeks digital autonomy from the US

#432

Post by lateforwork »

paulfitz wrote: post #421
flowerlad wrote: post #389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right but it is cheaper than open source products if you self-host. Most open source products in this space, including grist, are only partially open source.

[grist employee here] Grist forms are open source and were used to keep the toilets clean at FOSDEM just a few days ago https://fosstodon.org/@grist/116001932837956733 Everything you see in our standard docker image is open source. Yes, you can enable and pay for enterprise features too.

It is weird that your enterprise features are not self-hostable even if a customer pays. I understand if some features are not open source, but why make it not self-hostable? Self-hosting is a requirement for confidential data.

Re: France dumps Zoom and Teams as Europe seeks digital autonomy from the US

#433

Post by tyre »

j_maffe wrote: post #332
tyre wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, they do: https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2023/06/27/international-... People globally have routinely acknowledged that: 1. The US is a hegemony that meddles in others’ affairs 2. It does so selfishly, despite the high flying rhetoric about freedom, democracy, etc. 3. This is good The preconditions for absence of war in Europe came before the EU existed and has to do with the post-WWII balance of power, which…

The poll you reference didn't ask a single country in the middle east (except Israel, of course!) or most of South American countries (half of which puppet governments were placed). I wonder why. And you really argue with a straight face that this is representative of "People globally"? I'd be more insulted by your attempt of slight if PEW wasn't doing the same.

I’m happy to review other data if you have it!

I’m not at all suggesting that the United States’s history isn’t fucked. I would suggest, though, that many people recognize that there are tradeoffs and having a single global superpower provides stability in exchange for freedom.

Yes, I’m aware of our history overturning democracies in South America or south east Asia due to communism or Iran because of oil. I’m also aware of efforts to install democracies (e.g. Iraq) not being about freedom. The people polled understand this as well.

I’m curious which counter factual reality you think would be better? Be specific as to what it would look like; who the regional powers would be; how they would cooperate / interfere with each other; what wars would look like, including frequency, between regional powers vs. today; whether states within their sphere of influence would be required to participate in these wars, etc etc etc.

Re: France dumps Zoom and Teams as Europe seeks digital autonomy from the US

#434

Post by LostMyWords »

bigfudge wrote: post #353
Teever wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Solidworks is produced by a company that is owned by the Dassault Group. There is always a connection between the military industrial complex of a nation and the state. If France feels that it is an existential threat they will not let the design and maintence of their weapons be dependent on an operating system produced by a company based out of a country that has threatened them. I'm not saying that this will happe…

EU have access to Windows source code. Presumably if the shit really hit the fan we'd have a European build without all the spy/crapware added? Not much of a consolation given we'd have to be on the brink of WW3 for it to happen...

I'm out of the loop, how does the EU have access to Windows source code?

Re: France dumps Zoom and Teams as Europe seeks digital autonomy from the US

#435

Post by irishcoffee »

alephnerd wrote: post #380
anon291 wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Europe's main strategy these days seems to be blaming others instead of looking at themselves. For example, they blame America for their own issue of lacking tech companies, despite Europe taking credit for having fewer work hours, more 'equitable' societies, etc. They blame China for their own issue of lacking domestic manufacturing, despite their pride at having strong unions, supposedly good labor protections, and…

> They blame India for the bogey of 'buying Russian oil', instead of blaming themselves for being the LARGEST purchaser of refined oil products from India. As if India, one of the hottest countries on the planet, actually needs heating oil India and the EU have managed to work as adults and find a way to sign an FTA [0] and Defense Pact [1] last week. The adults in the room found a way to compromise and turn a zero s…

> The adults in the room found a way to compromise and turn a zero sum game into a stag hunt and anyone repeating tired tropes like above is either extremely uninformed or a bot.

If there were adults in the room in 2023, trump doesn’t get elected.

The adults in the room bypassed a democratic primary. The adults in the room proffered up a candidate whose vote platform was solely based on “I’m not him!”

Adults cut from the same cloth made the same emotional decisions with this trade agreement: “we aren’t trading with trump!” Fuck yeah, now what?

The adults in the room lost the plot decades ago.

Re: France dumps Zoom and Teams as Europe seeks digital autonomy from the US

#436

Post by tyre »

j_maffe wrote: post #333
tyre wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US hegemony has been a tremendous boon to the world. Yes, the US has done terrible things (lots in South America, Vietnam, genocide in East Timor, failed nation building and war crimes in the Middle East, support for genocide in Palestine, etc.) This isn’t to minimize that. But the reality is that the US benefits immensely from free democracies with rules-based open markets and international order. Again, do we b…

> But the reality is that the US benefits immensely from free democracies Would you like for me to start counting the number of times the US helped install a democracy vs the number of times it installed dictatorships?

I’m well aware. (Probably any American who can name East Timor, let alone is aware of our participation in their genocide, is more likely than not to be familiar with our history.)

What you said doesn’t discount that we are better with free democracies, regardless of whether we see that through. Democracies tend to raise the per capita income across the population, which, in concert with free markets, gives our multinational corporations new markets to sell shit to.

Sometimes we have other more pressing concerns, like oil in Iran/Iraq (a democracy destroyed and created, respectively); global shipping / colonialism in our support of Israel in conflicts with Egypt over the Suez; abandoning our Kurdish allies to keep Turkey happy enough to keep military assets there.

Geopolitics doesn’t always do one thing or another, even if it were perfectly rational. And no foreign policy is that.

Re: France dumps Zoom and Teams as Europe seeks digital autonomy from the US

#437

Post by bartholemew1 »

rootusrootus wrote: post #282
GaryBluto wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's so strange reading all these comments from Americans begging to be punished for collective misdeeds. It reads as unsettlingly masochistic.

The only people who hate Americans as much as (or more than) Europeans are Americans.

...

Re: France dumps Zoom and Teams as Europe seeks digital autonomy from the US

#439

Post by budududuroiu »

burningChrome wrote: post #13
spicyusername wrote: post #3

Such a shame that so many U.S. citizens do not see the ramifications of their political decisions. Each one of these actions is a stepping stone the world is taking as a direct consequence of U.S. political negligence. And however difficult it was to render this consequence, it will be tenfold, or hundredfold, as difficult to reverse course.

>>> Such a shame that so many U.S. citizens do not see the ramifications of their political decisions. Most US Citizens are not voting on what you think they're voting on. Most are worried about things that affect their day-to-day life like cost of eggs, the cost of gas, taxes going up, my 401K going in the dumpster. I live and breathe tech everyday. I see the dangers of it all around me. Day in and day out. You try…

This is why I personally believe that the "anyone is allowed to vote for anyone" style of democracy is really dumb, and Chinese "democracy" (whatever that is), is superior for governance.

Re: France dumps Zoom and Teams as Europe seeks digital autonomy from the US

#440

Post by silviogutierrez »

GaryBluto wrote: post #177
tyre wrote: post #23

As an American, this is awesome to see. We should pay penalties for our abandonment of good faith global engagement. And economic damage really is the key to the heart of these United States of Three Corporations in a Trench Coat. We’ve seen companies and CEOs paying millions in bribes to be close to the president. Now this aligns their financial interests with shifting our foreign policy. Not how it ought to work, b…

It's so strange reading all these comments from Americans begging to be punished for collective misdeeds. It reads as unsettlingly masochistic.

Some people profess guilt to claim credit for the sin
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