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Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app

macrumors.com

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Re: Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app

#431

Post by willtemperley »

pjc50 wrote: post #424
willtemperley wrote: post #395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're perfectly entitled to distribute a macOS app with your own paywall, the same as ever. Nothing has changed from that perspective. Rent-seeking on SaaS platforms is far worse I think, e.g. $30 per month for 10GB of data in a recent offering I was looking at, and who knows where the data are. Some datacenter in a foreign land with a mad king probably.

> You're perfectly entitled to distribute a macOS app with your own paywall Are you sure the ToS allows that? Given the "anti-steering" rules? Can you point me to an example that isn't by a megacorp? > $30 per month for 10GB of data in a recent offering I was looking at, and who knows where the data are That's worse pricing than my mobile contract!

Scroll to the bottom:

https://developer.apple.com/macos/distribution/

Re: Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app

#432

Post by lozenge »

newsclues wrote: post #385
awesan wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does make sense to highlight, because this kind of statistic is a very strong indicator that the market is not competitive. This is not a normal kind of profit margin and basically everyone except for Apple would benefit from them lowering the margins. In normal markets there are competitors who force each other to keep reasonable profit margins and to improve their product as opposed to milking other people's har…

Might not be competitive but it’s totally voluntary. No one needs app, it’s not food or shelter, so clearly consumers are willing and able to pay this. The consumer is willing to pay the price based on the perceived value from the App Store

The relevant market here is the creators not the consumers. As a creator you have no choice but to accept whatever fees Apple, Google, Steam etc set. Or whatever rates Spotify pays you per stream. The fact you "could" host your own website is irrelevant when the reality is nobody will visit it.

Re: Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app

#434

Post by addandsubtract »

pipo234 wrote: post #258
jinzo wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm running a small service, sub 150 users, no online signup kind of business, B2B. Small EU country. 95% of users ask 'do you have an mobile app?' in first 5 minutes of onboarding. Telling them how to install a PWA (and what it is and so forth) is an uphill battle. Unfortunately App Stores rule the non technical crowd.

To many users, an app seems to be perceived as the blessed way to access the web. While on a mobile, they are mostly a way to organize symlinks or bookmarks. Except, off course a web browser does its best to protect the user while most apps don't. Meanwhile I continue doing the Lords work by telling kids that apps are not the internet. Hopefully, that 95% percentage will eventually decrease.

This made me realize, Firefox needs to create a launcher that just creates PWAs out of bookmarks (or vice versa). That way, people get the "app feel" without needing to download every single app.

Re: Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app

#435

Post by woadwarrior01 »

Apple has an Apple Pay for Donations[1] program, which doesn't apply for rent seeking entities like Patreon. I wonder if Patreon's 10% fee is commensurate with the negligible value that they provide?

[1]: https://developer.apple.com/apple-pay/nonprofits/

Re: Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app

#436

Post by sethops1 »

AnonC wrote: post #184

I actually love Apple for pushing this matter this hard and sticking to its guns. This will bring in more regulatory scrutiny not just in the U.S. but in other countries as well. That will force Apple to give up (maybe in a decade or so) this practice of arbitrary rules and squeezing the last penny from others. Thanks a lot, Eddy Cue, for all that you do to bring Apple down to its knees!

In the U.S. I wouldn't expect meaningful regulation from an administration that accepts bribes in the form of literal gold nuggets.

Re: Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app

#437

Post by nickjj »

scyzoryk_xyz wrote: post #60
legitster wrote: post #3

This means Apple is literally going to take nearly 3x in fees from Patreon's customers than Patreon is taking from their own customers. My understanding is that the reason the number 30% is so magical is a historical anomaly. When software was physically distributed back in the day, 15% of the MSRP was reserved for the distributor and another 15% for the retailer. When these digital marketplaces were set up, the comp…

Had no idea about the history and the 15%/15% split but when the topic comes up I just remember how good the 30% seemed back in, what, 2008? It made perfect sense that this shiny new iOS platform would take 30% of a cheap app to ensure that it matches the high quality of iOS. These were little productivity apps and games at the time. This however - I just don't understand what the need is for an app at all for Patreo…

> What's next - 30% of my pizza price goes to Apple because I ordered it on my phone?

You joke but this already happens with places like DoorDash. They take 30% of the order from the store owner after adding their own additional fees to the order that customers pay.

Someone I know owns a pizza store and his prices are 30% higher on DoorDash but some people still pay. The big difference is it's not a monopoly. He offers regular delivery at normal store prices and 95% of his deliveries go through that.

Re: Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app

#438

Post by pjc50 »

willtemperley wrote: post #431
pjc50 wrote: post #424

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You're perfectly entitled to distribute a macOS app with your own paywall Are you sure the ToS allows that? Given the "anti-steering" rules? Can you point me to an example that isn't by a megacorp? > $30 per month for 10GB of data in a recent offering I was looking at, and who knows where the data are That's worse pricing than my mobile contract!

Scroll to the bottom: https://developer.apple.com/macos/distribution/

Isn't the "outside the app store" bit entirely new, and forced on them by the EU?

Doesn't change that if you distribute inside the app store, the app store rules ban you from any kind of external payment system.

Re: Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app

#439

Post by Rygian »

cong-or wrote: post #386

2035: Apple takes 30% of my Patreon, Google matched it through their "Competitive Parity Agreement," and the EU fined them both €2 billion which they paid in 45 minutes of revenue then raised fees to 32% to cover legal costs. The real innovation was convincing us this was inevitable.

You naively assumed that they would actualy disbourse 2 G€ in payments for those fines.

Reality disagrees: https://www.irishtimes.com/business/2024/12/13/data-regulato...

Re: Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app

#440

Post by darthoctopus »

akomtu wrote: post #332
vjvjvjvjghv wrote: post #231

To keep their growth rates going, these mega companies soon need to swallow the whole country’s GDP. I really wonder where this is going. They can’t keep growing at some point.

This might become technocracy at some point, if the corporations become stronger than the state govs. In that case, the entire NOAM region will become a so-called technate, ruled by a form of ToS. I'd say, technocracy is way worse than even autocracy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technocracy_movement

I think you may have fundamentally misunderstood what a technocracy is: it has nothing to do with tech companies whatsoever. From literally the article that you have linked:

> The technocracy movement proposed replacing partisan politicians and business people with scientists and engineers who had the technical expertise to manage the economy.

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