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Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

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Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#431

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Meanwhile, bicycles and e-bikes cost a fraction of a car.

Yes, and? They're different tools for different purposes. Such a disingenuous comment.

> They're different tools for different purposes.

Getting to work and running local errands?

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#432
post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a good point but imo not really surprising when the President of the United States essentially threatened to invade Canada and Greenland. This is classic multipolar politics, trade the two behemoths against each other so they don't roll over one day and just squish you. By alienating Canada and Europe we've handed China a great gift.

It's only getting started. Do you think Europe is going to use American networking equipment when America has shown that it will use its military against Europe? American grid technology?

Europe is stuck with American tech with no real alternatives in the horizon. Europe doing an independent stack is just wishful thinking.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#433

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I keep seeing "underequipped technologically relative to their Chinese peers" on HN. What kind of stuff is missing? This is not a loaded question, I only drive a couple times a month, and the vehicle I'm driving is an older Prius, so I probably lack imagination. EVs are supposed to be technologically pretty simple, most of an EV's value being in the battery packs. I've been thinking about upgrading, perhaps to a Niss…

> What kind of stuff is missing? I'm in the market for buying a new car, either EV or hybrid. Currently have a Audi, been looking at various BYD models, particularly the new Touring one. One important feature, that I didn't know I needed before I tried it, was in-seat AC, where the air from the AC hits the back and bottom, instead of just your arms and face. Living in a warm country, and spending most of the time in…

I think this is one place where European automakers are going to have to adapt or die out. Even if they can get the motors, batteries, and charging systems to a competitive level, Chinese manufacturers include most """luxury""" features by default. European manufacturers go the other way, including the hardware but locking the entire thing behind microtransactions or "upgrades".

They're going to need to cover the losses they're compensating for with the ridiculous upgrade prices somehow or they're going to lose even more customers. The import tariffs raised to protect the European market from affordable Chinese cars aren't going to work forever.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#434

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Until very recently, tariffs on American cars sold in China were much higher than vice-versa. The new US tariffs were an attempt to even the playing field. I think most people would agree that no tariffs would be good, but China is more protectionist than any other major economy, including recent changes in US policy.

Yes, but China has always been straightforward in that they believe in protectionism. It's part of their system. In contrast, in the West (at least until a few years ago), we have been fed the discourse that free market without protectionism is the best model, and protectionist countries are sabotaging themselves. And I don't know how it was in the US, but in the EU this caused hardship to many people. Entire countri…

Don’t forget the new use for tariffs. To force your allies to allow you to annex their territory.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#435
post #53

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Japanese and Chinese are very different buckets. What is the long term reliability of Chinese cars? Nobody knows.

I wouldn't be too concerned. Hyundai used to be synonymous with "garbage".

Hyundai is fairly unreliable. They were up and coming back in the 2000s and to some extent the 2010s, but their reliability has been quite poor in the past 5-10 years and I really wouldn't recommend a Hyundai to anyone.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#436

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> Then I think you see an early indication not just of electric car dominance, but of the (very potential) rise of China as the premier automotive super power. It’s done man. Americans are stuck in ICE engines because they’ve been told they’re “car enthusiasts” while the Chinese have been developing EV technology for years. Meanwhile, European makers are stuck not knowing what to do, make Americans happy or compete w…

Not that many Americans are car enthusiasts. The most popular cars have been basic commuters for decades.

Aren't the most popular "cars" in the US actually SUVs and light trucks?

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#437
post #290

The US/EU/JP manufacturers are half-pregnant, they have engine and other mechanical production plants that will become stranded assets as BEVs don't need engines, gearboxes or the other hydraulic/cooling etc infrastructure that an ICE vehicle needs. Electric motors are essentially maintenance free over the life of a BEV, same for the batteries. The maintenance is for brake pads/rotors, but regen braking also avoids t…

>Electric motors are essentially maintenance free over the life of a BEV, same for the batteries.

You had me until "same for the batteries." The batteries do pretty well, but they are quite the gamble.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#438
post #2

While the headline is interesting. I think the table at the end of the article is more so. - Worldwide sales -10% YoY - China sales -26% YoY And when you cross compare Porsche saying they sold more EV powertrains than their gas equivalents against China's new found foothold as the market leader in consumer electric cars (BYD, NIO, Xiaomi, etc...) Then I think you see an early indication not just of electric car domin…

China may become the superpower on volume but I would be surprised if the upper quartile (by price) of western buyers were interested in Chinese vehicles. Too much quality issues across the board on Chinese made products, unless you have a trusted non-Chinese company with stringent quality control (e.g. Apple model). I’m sure they can handily win the lower end of the market though. And yes I’m aware many western manu…

I grew up hearing the same thing about the Japanese back in the 60s and 70s. That didn't last though.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#439

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's only getting started. Do you think Europe is going to use American networking equipment when America has shown that it will use its military against Europe? American grid technology?

And what about all those huge pending orders for F35 in ... Denmark and Canada? Etc.

Denmark ordered more in October. Canada talks a lot, but so far has done nothing concrete about reducing their order. You would think they would urgently cancel and get Gripens and/or Rafales.

Wonder what's going on behind the scenes.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#440
post #404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Then I think you see an early indication not just of electric car dominance, but of the (very potential) rise of China as the premier automotive super power. It’s done man. Americans are stuck in ICE engines because they’ve been told they’re “car enthusiasts” while the Chinese have been developing EV technology for years. Meanwhile, European makers are stuck not knowing what to do, make Americans happy or compete w…

> Practicality beats enthusiasm for 95% of car use. About two years ago I rented an electric car for a few days. I felt like I wasted a ton of time finding a charging station, jumping through phone app hoops to get the charging process started, and then waiting for the car to charge. I've stayed away from electric rentals since, even though they're often cheaper.

Comparing renting a new type of car when you have to figure everything out for 2 days then return it, to owning a car, where you also have to figure everything out, but only for the first days, not the 600 days afterwards, is not really comparable.

Also, when you own a car you charge it at home and work, so you don't really wait for the car to charge very often.

And the next time you rent a car, it will be a bit simpler as you have done it once before. And even quicker/simpler the time after that etc.

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