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History LLMs: Models trained exclusively on pre-1913 texts

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Re: History LLMs: Models trained exclusively on pre-1913 texts

#431

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meme stocks are a symptom of the death of the American dream. Economic malaise leads to unsophisticated risk taking.

Well, two things lead to unsophisticated risk-taking, right... economic malaise, and unlimited surplus. Both conditions are easy to spot in today's world.

unlimited surplus does not pass the sniff test for me

Re: History LLMs: Models trained exclusively on pre-1913 texts

#432

> Imagine you could interview thousands of educated individuals from 1913—readers of newspapers, novels, and political treatises—about their views on peace, progress, gender roles, or empire. Not just survey them with preset questions, but engage in open-ended dialogue, probe their assumptions, and explore the boundaries of thought in that moment. Hell yeah, sold, let’s go… > We're developing a responsible access fra…

understand your frustration. i trust you also understand the models have some dark corners that someone could use to misrepresent the goals of our project. if you have ideas on how we could make the models more broadly accessible while avoiding that risk, please do reach out @ history-llms@econ.uzh.ch

I'm not sure I do. It feels like someone might for example have compiled a full library of books, newspapers and other writing from that era, only to then limit access to that library, doing the exact censorship I imagine the project was started to alleviate.

Now were it limited in access to ask money to compensate for the time and money spent compiling the library (or training the model), sure, I'd somewhat understand. Not agree but understand.

Now it just feels like you want to prevent your model name being associated with the one guy who might use it to create a racist slur Twitter bot. There's plenty of models for that already. At least the societal balance of a model like this would also have enough weight on the positive side to be net positive.

Re: History LLMs: Models trained exclusively on pre-1913 texts

#433
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is definitely fascinating - being able to do AI brain surgery, and selectively tuning its knowledge and priors, you'd be able to create awesome and terrifying simulations.

Respectfully, LLMs are nothing like a brain, and I discourage comparisons between the two, because beyond a complete difference in the way they operate, a brain can innovate, and as of this moment, an LLM cannot because it relies on previously available information. LLMs are just seemingly intelligent autocomplete engines, and until they figure a way to stop the hallucinations, they aren't great either. Every piece o…

> a brain can innovate, and as of this moment, an LLM cannot because it relies on previously available information.

Source needed RE brain.

Define innovate, in a way that a LLM can't and we definitively can prove a human can.

Re: History LLMs: Models trained exclusively on pre-1913 texts

#434
post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not the person you're responding to, but I think there's a non trivial argument to make that our thoughts are just auto complete. What is the next most likely word based on what you're seeing. Ever watched a movie and guessed the plot? Or read a comment and know where it was going to go by the end? And I know not everyone thinks in a literal stream of words all the time (I do) but I would argue that those people's br…

You, and OP, are taking an analogy way too far. Yes, humans have the mental capability to predict words similar to autocomplete, but obviously this is just one out of a myriad of mental capabilities typical humans have, which work regardless of text. You can predict where a ball will go if you throw it, you can reason about gravity, and so much more. It’s not just apples to oranges, not even apples to boats, it’s app…

I feel the link between humans and autocomplete is deeper than that an ability to predict.

Think about an average dinner party conversation. Person A talks, person B thinks about something to say that fits, person C gets an association from what A and B said and speaks...

And what are people most interested in talking about? Things they read or watched during the week perhaps?

Conversations would not have had to be like this. Imagine a species from another planet who had a "conversation" where each party simply communicated what it most needed to say/was most benefitial to say and said it. And where the chance of bringing up a topic had no correlation at all with what previous person said (why should it?) or with what was in the newspapers that week. And who had no "interest" in the association game.

Humans saying they are not driven by associations is to me a bit like fish saying they are not noticing the water. At least MY thought processes works like that.

Re: History LLMs: Models trained exclusively on pre-1913 texts

#435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Imagine having a conversation with someone genuinely from the period, where they don’t know the “end of the story”. Isn't this part of the basics feature of human conditions? Not only we are all unaware of the coming historic outcome (though we can get some big points with more or less good guesses), but to a marginally variable extend, we are also very unaware of past and present history. LLM are not aware, but the…

captain hindsight

Actually, this made me discover the character, thanks. I see your point and get the fun out of myself. On the other hand, at least in this case I don't pretend to cover some catastrophic results. :)

Re: History LLMs: Models trained exclusively on pre-1913 texts

#436

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll get back to what you said, but first let me ask you something if you would. Imagine Gender Queer was made into a movie that remained 100% faithful to the source content. What do you think it would be rated? To me it seems obvious that it would, at the absolute bare minimum, be R rated. And of course screening R-rated films at a school is prohibited without explicit parental permission. Imagine books were given a…

> any sexual behavior, such as a paraphilia, that is regarded as significantly different from the standards established by a culture or subculture. Deviant forms of sexual behavior may include voyeurism, fetishism, bestiality, necrophilia, sadism, and exhibitionism I don’t see Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, or Transgender in here, which would absolutely be explicitly included in the list if it applied. Stop saying “sexual d…

I'm not at all bigoted. If somebody genuinely is sexually attracted to the same sex, more power to them. Homosexuality also exists within nature and there are obviously people who simply have never been attracted to anything except the same sex since their first days. It's completely unreasonable to expect these people to try to change who they are on such a fundamental level, and so I think society, at large, should absolutely be tolerant of such.

But there is a major difference between tolerating something and endorsing it. I think this is especially true in modern times. 30% of people are obviously not LGB. So you have people acting out sexually in a way that's probably not only 'unnatural' for them, but may end up harming them longterm. It's not a great situation. Because of this I do not indulge language policing which I believe is much more towards endorse than tolerate. Yes you are obviously right I'm aware of what I'm doing, but I also assure you if we met and had a coffee you'd find me anything but bigoted or hostile. We just have different worldviews.

Re: History LLMs: Models trained exclusively on pre-1913 texts

#437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> any sexual behavior, such as a paraphilia, that is regarded as significantly different from the standards established by a culture or subculture. Deviant forms of sexual behavior may include voyeurism, fetishism, bestiality, necrophilia, sadism, and exhibitionism I don’t see Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, or Transgender in here, which would absolutely be explicitly included in the list if it applied. Stop saying “sexual d…

I'm not at all bigoted. If somebody genuinely is sexually attracted to the same sex, more power to them. Homosexuality also exists within nature and there are obviously people who simply have never been attracted to anything except the same sex since their first days. It's completely unreasonable to expect these people to try to change who they are on such a fundamental level, and so I think society, at large, should…

[deleted]

Re: History LLMs: Models trained exclusively on pre-1913 texts

#438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> any sexual behavior, such as a paraphilia, that is regarded as significantly different from the standards established by a culture or subculture. Deviant forms of sexual behavior may include voyeurism, fetishism, bestiality, necrophilia, sadism, and exhibitionism I don’t see Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, or Transgender in here, which would absolutely be explicitly included in the list if it applied. Stop saying “sexual d…

I'm not at all bigoted. If somebody genuinely is sexually attracted to the same sex, more power to them. Homosexuality also exists within nature and there are obviously people who simply have never been attracted to anything except the same sex since their first days. It's completely unreasonable to expect these people to try to change who they are on such a fundamental level, and so I think society, at large, should…

[deleted]

Re: History LLMs: Models trained exclusively on pre-1913 texts

#439
post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They aren't afraid of hallucinations. Their first example is a hallucination, an imaginary biography of a Hitler who never lived. Their concern can't be understood without a deep understanding of the far left wing mind. Leftists believe people are so infinitely malleable that merely being exposed to a few words of conservative thought could instantly "convert" someone into a mortal enemy of their ideology for life. I…

They said it plainly ("dark corners that someone could use to misrepresent the goals of our project"): they just don't want to see their project in headlines about "Researchers create racist LLM!".

They already represented the goals of their project clearly, and gave examples of outputs. Anyone can already misrepresent it. That isn't their true concern.

Re: History LLMs: Models trained exclusively on pre-1913 texts

#440
post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They aren't afraid of hallucinations. Their first example is a hallucination, an imaginary biography of a Hitler who never lived. Their concern can't be understood without a deep understanding of the far left wing mind. Leftists believe people are so infinitely malleable that merely being exposed to a few words of conservative thought could instantly "convert" someone into a mortal enemy of their ideology for life. I…

You know, I actually sympathize with the opinion that people should be expected and assumed to be able to resist attempts to convince them of being nazis. The problem with it is, it already happened at least once. We know how it happened. Unchecked narratives about minorities or foreigners is a significant part of why the 20th century happened to Europe, and it’s a significant part of why colonialism and slavery happ…

Studying history better would be a good start. The Nazis came to power because they were a far left party and the population in that era thought socialism was a great idea. Hitler himself remarked many times that his movement was left wing and socialist. I expect that if you asked the LLM trained on pre-1940s text, it would have no difficulty in explaining that.

By studying history better, people wouldn't draw the wrong conclusions about what caused it. Watch out for left wing radicals promoting socialism-with-genetic-characteristics.

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