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My stages of learning to be a socially normal person

sashachapin.substack.com

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Re: My stages of learning to be a socially normal person

#431

Post by Thossndjsj »

WolfeReader wrote: post #414
Thossndjsj wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And thus my point is illustrated. Few seem to believe that wanting to die is a valid state of mind without some sort of physical or psychological malady. And hence why as is often the point, being unique isn't a desired thing. Because most people don't want the frightening unfamiliarity.

Every organ in the body, when healthy, supports the life of the whole organism. The suicidal brain is not supporting the life of the organism; it is not healthy. Get off of internet forums and seek medical help. Your loved ones would tell you the same thing.

If what you say is true, then why did no species evolve immortality?

What about people that give their lives to save others? Are they mentally ill as well?

And again this is what I mean. I don't have anyone close to me anymore outside of the ones in my care. That was a conscious decision to minimize any potential collatoral harm when I do die.

My previous friends have drifted off over the last 15 years from me intentionally neglecting those relationships. I have never had intimate relationships with anyone, I haven't spoken to my sibling in 22 years, and most of my kin lives continents away and to whom I have never even seen in my life.

Who exactly are these loved ones you think exist?

Re: My stages of learning to be a socially normal person

#432

Post by Thossndjsj »

hypeatei wrote: post #376
Thossndjsj wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people from what I've seen don't want unique as much as they want somewhat famailiar. If it deviates too far away from that then they are repulsed, and I can give you an example right here. I'm going to commit suicide. I've known this for the last 15 years. It'll probably be another 10 years before I'll die, but I know my end is half laying down with a 1.5 inch nylon strap tied cinched on my neck and a tree trun…

FWIW, I have the same mindset and your comment resonated with me; suicide is a very taboo subject still. The responses to it are either: you need to seek help for mental illness or you're just acting like an edgy teenager. The term "mental health" is quite terrible because what are we using as a baseline for "healthy" when we throw that term around? No one can answer that. I don't think everyone using that term is be…

The problem is I don't think the initial reaction is incorrect. How does one tell the difference between someone in pain crying for help and someone that's genuinely ready to go? You can't really, not without long conversations.

What gets to be a tired argument is with people that seem to believe that the former is the only possible explanation, and refuse to believe that the latter is even a possibility. For them I think the problem is that challenges the belief that life is to be held upon a sacred alter above all, and that such a belief is held to be a universal truth.

It's hard to step away from such a belief because it opens an uncomfortable door in asking what makes being alive to be preferable, who gets to decide that, and what if anything should be done about it.

Re: My stages of learning to be a socially normal person

#433

Post by seethedeaduu »

underlipton wrote: post #243
taurath wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My take living as a relatively high functioning autistic (& other things) person and having many neurodivergent friends is that instrumentalizing is more often due to relational failures due to developmental social differences. The underlying of those is most often a hypersensitive (to sight, sound, smells, touch) individual having periods of being overwhelmed by the world around them. Couple that with parents who re…

I think this is where the high incidence of neurodivergence in the trans community and certain subcultures (furries, roleplaying) comes to fore. Autism is often accompanied by identity conflicts - between what you're labeled as, and how people treat you, and how you feel about yourself - because communication disruptions are common when neurotypes are unaligned, and identity is both the reason for and the means by wh…

I completely disagree, I find this claim to also be unsupported by the current evidence. Identity is only a part of being trans and often comes much later.

Re: My stages of learning to be a socially normal person

#434

Post by seethedeaduu »

coldtea wrote: post #355
wedje wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> presenting as a woman When autism meets sexism.

The goalposts for "sexism" have moved to the edge of the galaxy if people today think that's sexism. Parent says that "identity is socially-constructed", they defend trans people, they say it "isn't any less justifiable than being assigned good ol' football-playin', roughhousin', English class-hatin', red-blooded American manhood" - but the fact they said "presenting" as opposed to "being" a woman is sexism, as if th…

This poster is a well known transphobic troll that makes new accounts every week and implies that trans women are autistic males who "pretend" to be women because of sexism.

That being said, saying presenting instead of being is not ideal indeed.

Re: My stages of learning to be a socially normal person

#435

Post by immibis »

majorchord wrote: post #405
immibis wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If somebody doesn't like me, cool - there's plenty of other people And what if no one likes me?

I can tell you exactly why people don't like you. You speak as if you are an expert on everything in the universe at all times. Way too much black-and-white thinking. And many people often strongly disagree with your statements... a great deal of your comments are quite often downvoted and/or flagged. There is a reason you have been banned from several different platforms now. Disagreeing/arguing with their actions i…

Many of your comments are you condescendingly implying other people are stupider than you, and you have a disproportionate number of comments targeting me specifically.

Re: My stages of learning to be a socially normal person

#436

Post by vacuity »

coldtea wrote: post #348
YurgenJurgensen wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You say ‘somehow’ like the reasoning isn’t obvious. Physical attractiveness is a signal of reproductive fitness when it’s genetic, and not otherwise.

The reductionist biological explanation might be obvious to you, but in the actual world, the reasoning and the moral condemnation of things like plastic surgery is never explicitly about giving false signals regarding one's reproductive fitness. Reasons "haters" cite are about vanity, narcissism, refusing to look your age, etc.

To me, a big factor that I subconsciously evaluate on is the "fakeness" of the appearance itself. Instances where plastic surgery results in the uncanny valley of "should be good but looks too perfect or messes up a critical aspect" disturb me. Plastic surgery isn't as powerful as Photoshop. Maybe that's more on the surgeon, and subjective criterion of attraction (such as mine), but it simply isn't the case that plastic surgery makes someone look good.

Re: My stages of learning to be a socially normal person

#437

Post by whstl »

vacuity wrote: post #436
coldtea wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reductionist biological explanation might be obvious to you, but in the actual world, the reasoning and the moral condemnation of things like plastic surgery is never explicitly about giving false signals regarding one's reproductive fitness. Reasons "haters" cite are about vanity, narcissism, refusing to look your age, etc.

To me, a big factor that I subconsciously evaluate on is the "fakeness" of the appearance itself. Instances where plastic surgery results in the uncanny valley of "should be good but looks too perfect or messes up a critical aspect" disturb me. Plastic surgery isn't as powerful as Photoshop. Maybe that's more on the surgeon, and subjective criterion of attraction (such as mine), but it simply isn't the case that plas…

I guess that's totally fair. People are hard wired to pattern-match faces, and someone who deviates from the norm will attract attention.

I was more talking about judgement of people who did just to still look normal but better, similarly to the judgement of people who learn "social skills" like the TFA discusses.

Re: My stages of learning to be a socially normal person

#438

Post by WolfeReader »

Thossndjsj wrote: post #431
WolfeReader wrote: post #414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every organ in the body, when healthy, supports the life of the whole organism. The suicidal brain is not supporting the life of the organism; it is not healthy. Get off of internet forums and seek medical help. Your loved ones would tell you the same thing.

If what you say is true, then why did no species evolve immortality? What about people that give their lives to save others? Are they mentally ill as well? And again this is what I mean. I don't have anyone close to me anymore outside of the ones in my care. That was a conscious decision to minimize any potential collatoral harm when I do die. My previous friends have drifted off over the last 15 years from me intent…

The question: "Who exactly are these loved ones you think exist?"

The answer: "elderly relatives" "My previous friends" "my sibling" "my kin"

When you say, "That was a conscious decision to minimize any potential collatoral harm when I do die", it tells me that you were suicidal first, and lost contact with your friends and family second. You have all of those connections, and they will be devastated to learn that you took your own life without reaching out for help.

(I'm ignoring the first two paragraphs you posted - it's just pointless argumentation on your part that doesn't have anything to do with your illness.)

Re: My stages of learning to be a socially normal person

#439

Post by Thossndjsj »

WolfeReader wrote: post #438
Thossndjsj wrote: post #431

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If what you say is true, then why did no species evolve immortality? What about people that give their lives to save others? Are they mentally ill as well? And again this is what I mean. I don't have anyone close to me anymore outside of the ones in my care. That was a conscious decision to minimize any potential collatoral harm when I do die. My previous friends have drifted off over the last 15 years from me intent…

The question: "Who exactly are these loved ones you think exist?" The answer: "elderly relatives" "My previous friends" "my sibling" "my kin" When you say, "That was a conscious decision to minimize any potential collatoral harm when I do die", it tells me that you were suicidal first, and lost contact with your friends and family second. You have all of those connections, and they will be devastated to learn that yo…

>I'm ignoring the first two paragraphs you posted - it's just pointless argumentation on your part that doesn't have anything to do with your illness.

No you're not ignoring it because it's irrelevant. You're trying to do so because you're afraid of what you'll find if you did seriously try to answer it. Because it brings shakes a foundational idea that human life is to be held sacred above all.

And that's fine, I'm not asking you to change your world view. What is irritating to me though is that you're inventing a carracature of me that doesn't exist.

Those connections that imagine exist, don't. The elderly relatives are the only ones that know I still yet live, and once they pass I too shall end.

But the kin you think cares about me, I can assure you, doesn't. We may share ancestors but that is all. They're all continents away, most don't know inexistance and none even know my name.

And the friends that I had were only due to proximity from school or work. How hard exactly do you think it was for me to cut them out of my life?

Because all I had to do was.... Nothing. I did nothing and they disappeared like the mist in the wind. We were never close. I never learned what their favorite food was, or when their birthday was, or the names of their spouse or children.

Perhaps they would be sad if they learned I passed. But who's going to tell them when they are in effect strangers to me now? I city I live in has hundreds of suicides a year and there's nary ever a whisper about it.

So again, what loved ones?

Re: My stages of learning to be a socially normal person

#440

Post by WolfeReader »

Thossndjsj wrote: post #439
WolfeReader wrote: post #438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The question: "Who exactly are these loved ones you think exist?" The answer: "elderly relatives" "My previous friends" "my sibling" "my kin" When you say, "That was a conscious decision to minimize any potential collatoral harm when I do die", it tells me that you were suicidal first, and lost contact with your friends and family second. You have all of those connections, and they will be devastated to learn that yo…

>I'm ignoring the first two paragraphs you posted - it's just pointless argumentation on your part that doesn't have anything to do with your illness. No you're not ignoring it because it's irrelevant. You're trying to do so because you're afraid of what you'll find if you did seriously try to answer it. Because it brings shakes a foundational idea that human life is to be held sacred above all. And that's fine, I'm…

"No you're not ignoring it because it's irrelevant. You're trying to do so because you're afraid of what you'll find if you did seriously try to answer it. Because it brings shakes a foundational idea that human life is to be held sacred above all."

Of the arguments you think I'm afraid of:

1. A person sacrificing their life for others is not mentally ill (assuming the sacrifice directly achieves the goal - i.e. taking a bullet for someone). It's an action which proves how much they value the lives of others. ...which has nothing to do with your suicide.

2. No species has evolved immortality because the goal of evolution is for each organism to live long enough to pass its genetic material to another generation. ...which has nothing to do with your suicide.

You gotta understand, I'm not trying to win an argument with you! If that was all I wanted, I'd wait 10 years and win by attrition.

Your brain is ill, and this then caused you to sever social connections and become suicidal. I am telling you to seek medical advice from medical professionals.

You claim to be operating just fine, so how about you go verify it in person with a doctor? Tell them what you told me, and see which of us they agree with?

If you don't, then we know which of us is "afraid".

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