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French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

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Re: French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

#431

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>and in 2025 they are gaslighting me about ever having had those arguments at all This part is especially fascinating because I have heard of, and even had, remarkably similar experiences. The only real thing is the perpetual now. It's not even that they aren't curious or aware of what they said previously, they even emphatically deny their own words. I don't know if you remember when Ebola was a big news topic becau…

They have lost all ability to remember the past. Big head political pundits literally go on Fox News and blame a Democrat President for Epstein's death, and you have to tell them "Uh, no, Trump was president then, and it was his administration in control" and they have this insane double take look like they can't possibly remember that. Blaming Obama for the Hurricane Katrina response wasn't a fluke. My father is a g…

I do think there would be some utility to isolating and elevating this particular issue. It seems to be pretty uniform as a phenomenon. Conspiracy theorists can't remember the past.

I also think there's a kind of fascinating meta question about how the nature of conspiracy theorizing itself response to challenges. I think fact checking is a perfectly legitimate institutional response to it and in a healthy culture it would be appreciated and valued and utilized and would play a role. But the conspiracy ecosystem writ large has had to think of a systematic response to the phenomenon of fact checking and like evolve its way out of vulnerability to it.

One is to dismiss correction for any number of reasons, another is to kind of cultivate a mindset and attitude of frenzied emotional subject shifting that kind of exists and sustains itself in a way that's detached from the habit of factual investigation. But I also think there are such things as like experimenting with principled philosophical stances like relativism or disputing baseline concepts like burden of proof or especially fascinating in the flat Earth corner of the internet are philosophical positions about the relativity of knowledge and extreme subjective and skeptical orientations towards the world and the possibility of data and knowledge.

So even though I actually personally believe in the importance and significance of isolating out and emphasizing specific clear and short criticisms such as conspiracy theorists can't remember the past. I do think they have processes to metabolize and respond to those criticisms and I'm fascinated to learn to what extent they might try to articulate a principle in defense of not remembering the past. Because surely some will give it the college try.

Re: French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

#432
post #381
post #345

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Dassault (major newspaper owner) Is that like Lockheed Martin owning a major newspaper or GE owning a TV network?

It's actually kind of worse. Because you get a mix of Dassault (the company)'s agenda (defense spending, pro-industry) and a push for the fairly conservative views of the Marcel Bloch/Dassault descendants themselves. To be fair, le Figaro was The French conservative newspaper long before the Dassault's ownership (like +100 years prior), so it's more a case of "Le Figaro has a more comfortable budget to push its views…

> Or maybe lately, Larry Ellison's take over of Paramount/CBS (but it feels more like he is buying a toy for his son).

If it were just a toy for his son these things wouldn't have happened - Stephen Colbert canned - Bari Weiss hired to head the news division - $32 million settlement for an easily winnable lawsuit

I've probably missed some. Ellison is a huge Trump supporter and is clearly reshaping CBS to at least go easy on Trump, if not to make it yet another right wing propaganda outlet.

Re: French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

#433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Thankfully, the world isn't made just from "the west", so I guess its not the end for the humanity - yet. "Humanity" as in "the species homo sapiens sapiens", yes, that will survive. But "humanity" as in "societies ruled by foundational human rights and democracy"? Not if Trump's USA, China, Russia and Modi's India have their will.

I don't understand how somebody can speak of the West having "foundational human rights and democracy" non-ironically now a days. We are literally providing the weapons to carry out an actual genocide in Gaza. And 'democracy' doesn't elevate Trump vs Biden as the two most liked candidates in the country. It's just a system with intentionally massive barriers to entry played by political elites and the occasional outs…

Hamas decided to invade Israel, they knew that Israel couldn't and wouldn't let the single most deadly day for Jews since 1945 unanswered.

Re: French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

#434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So the media intentionally stirs controversy and they aren't even getting paid to do it by hostile states or the ultra-wealthy? There really is no hope is there.

The media relies first and foremost on advertising revenue, which depends on ratings or viewership metrics, which become the goal. The more viewers you get, the more expensive advertising slots become: the point stops being to report the facts and starts being to engage the audience at an emotional level, so that they come back for more.

the newsroom did used to be slightly more insulated when advertising was limited by technology, but once the doors blew open with Craigslist and other online ads it became a craven race to the bottom for both attention and shrinking the newsroom

Re: French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

#435

Something really scary in France right now is that you can see really clearly how most mainstream media are used for propaganda. Since a few days, there is an abundance of cover and articles in most major newspaper here with propaganda and repeated lies supporting him. It's hard to imagine but non stop. You have everyday interviews of his family saying that it is an injustice, that he did nothing, that the judgement…

Most of western media is extremely biased and not different than Chinese media. Good luck finding a job as a journalist with controversial ideas. Only the selected minds are offered positions. Of course we in the west still have a choice to read from different sources, but 95% of the people are stuck with propaganda news outlets.

Re: French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

#436
post #423
post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it's not some kind of clickbait strategy to drive views. Driving an agenda is. Most of French media, specially newspapers, are money sinks only surviving because they are useful to push the rent-seeking business or ideological agenda of their owners (Dassault, Bouygues, Lagardere, Arnault, Bettencourt, Saade, Pinault, Niel). Also, just for context, Martin Bouygues, Bernard Arnault and Vincent Bollore, the respect…

What about Le Monde Diplomatique?

In April 2024, Le Monde Group’s majority stakeholder became a financial endowment, or fonds de dotation (FDD), named Fonds pour l'indépendance de la presse.

En: https://www.lemonde.fr/en/about-us/article/2023/09/24/two-ma...

Fr: https://www.lemonde.fr/actualite-medias/article/2023/09/24/d...

This was the result of journalist demands, covered here: https://www.cjr.org/the_media_today/le_monde_daniel_kretinsk...

This structure is also used by Mediapart, owned by Fonds pour une presse libre, and Libération, owned by Fonds de dotation pour une presse indépendante, with Mediapart being inspired to emulate The Manchester Guardian (which has been operated by a trust since 1936): https://www.lesechos.fr/tech-medias/medias/le-monde-appartie...

Re: French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

#437
post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As always, france is always just 5-10 years behind US craziness.

US is 5-10 years ahead of Europe. MAGA is coming to France and the UK unless things change. In the UK the Conservatives and Starmer have seen to it. There are literally 2 things people in the UK want to see and both parties are stubbornly ignoring it, while failing to enact any policies that can actually help people. Meanwhile Starmer is becoming more authoritarian by the day. Trump didn't happen in a vacuum, ignore…

> The incredible successes of Trumps second term so far will encourage and empower populists everywhere.

Successes? He's succeeded at consolidating power because his own party and his partisans on the Supreme Court allow it. Also, destroying stuff is easy. What are these successes of which you speak?

Re: French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

#438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sarkozy is not a political prisoner though. He's a politician that committed fraud by taking foreign money to finance his electoral campaign. Once elected he then proceeded to declare war to the dictator who gave him that money and eventually got him killed. That last point is sadly not in the scope of the judgement.

Are we crying tears over Muammar Gaddafi here? The man was a butcher and NATO was completely justified in imposing a no fly zone and supporting the National Transition Council in Libya. There was a UN Security Council resolution authorizing it. Lots of things to criticize Sarkozy for but his support for the intervention is not one of them.

As a result the country entered dark ages with suffering unseen before. Of course Gaddafi was betrayed by the French. Just like France is betraying all of their former colonies.

Re: French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

#439

Something really scary in France right now is that you can see really clearly how most mainstream media are used for propaganda. Since a few days, there is an abundance of cover and articles in most major newspaper here with propaganda and repeated lies supporting him. It's hard to imagine but non stop. You have everyday interviews of his family saying that it is an injustice, that he did nothing, that the judgement…

> Something really scary in France right now is

I mean he's going to jail. If anything that's better than most countries. In India, a chief minister who instigated racial riots never even had to go to court for it and he even became the current de facto autocrate

Re: French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

#440
post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think this is a deliberate ruse, but news organizations giving in to public pressure. I remember the NBC coverage of the conflict in Gaza in the days immediately following October 7, and how their narrative swung rapidly as public consensus against the IDF developed.

The public pressure against “the IDF” (but really against Jewish people) came from Qatari sponsorship of US higher education. If you dislike AIPAC you should dislike Qatar much more, for their budget is much higher.

Qatar gave a great deal of money to Tulane University - if you want to call an insititution with a 40% Jewish student body anti-Semitic I don't know what to say to you.
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