Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps

metalhearf.fr

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

431–440 of 656 posts

Re: ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps

#431

Post by gambiting »

nickslaughter02 wrote: post #378
gambiting wrote: post #377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And if you read literally one paragraph from the bit that you quoted: "The majority of national courts have generally recognized and accepted this principle, except for the part where European law outranks a member state's constitution. As a result, national constitutional courts have also reserved the right to review the conformity of EU law with national constitutional law" And guess why and how they are able to do…

I'm looking forward to seeing this in practice when Chat Control passes.

In what way? Most EU countries are for it, so of course they are going to implement it. Nothing to do with sovereignty.

Re: ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps

#432

Post by ycombigators »

drnick1 wrote: post #406
jansper39 wrote: post #386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>you will gradually lose control of your government much like how the people of the UK already lost control of theirs. As a UK citizen, can you explain your reasoning here? We haven't implemented anything like the chat control proposal and while a few politicians have brought up similar ideas, there is a lot of pushback against it.

Age verification, while trivial to bypass (for now), has brought you closer to further privacy-invading restrictions. Next, VPNs will be attacked. Then it will be unsigned apps on "untrusted" operating systems.

Anonymity is not privacy.

Re: ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps

#433

Post by nazgul17 »

palata wrote: post #417
Levitz wrote: post #401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, because there was an expectation of privacy. That expectation is no longer there.

Privacy from who? Law enforcement has been leveraging that forever. But ChatControl won't prevent the encryption for anyone who is not the receiver of the reports. And the receiver is the equivalent of "law enforcement", right?

The scalability of spying has exploded. Back before re-election comms, the government had no way to spy on communications and sieve out opposers - now they do, with encryption the only thing standing in the way.

Re: ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps

#434

Post by tormeh »

palata wrote: post #251
jimbo808 wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing that is crazy to me is that they choose to go after Signal of all things. Certainly there would be higher priority targets than a messaging app that has no social networking features to speak of, if child predators were really the target here.

This is nonsense. Anyone who has the smallest clue would use Signal for anything sensitive. Of course people would use Signal to talk about illegal stuff. I am against ChatControl. But I am amazed by all the bullshit arguments that people find to criticise ChatControl. If you have more control, obviously it's easier to track criminals. That's not the question at all. The question is: what is the cost to society? A fe…

Most illegal things go on Telegram for some reason. I guess Signal doesn't have the required features.

Re: ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps

#435

Post by XajniN »

ycombigators wrote: post #430
txrx0000 wrote: post #418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The UK doesn't have the exact equivalent of chat control yet, but it already arrests people for politically incorrect posts. They're doing things in smaller steps, which is more likely to succeed.

[dead]

You’re just proving his point.

Re: ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps

#436

Post by vfclists »

The solution is to use something like PGP but for chat.

Everyone owns their key and uses it to exchange their info with others.

Its not complicated and has existed for ages.

Simple fact is people should learn more about IT and exercise more control over their affairs instead of handing it over to corporations.

Re: ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps

#437

Post by izacus »

randomNumber7 wrote: post #161
izacus wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same thing that prevents you form buying a knife and walking around stabbing people.

So you think this is comparable to sending around some data over TCP or UDP?

No, I think the enforcement of law is comparable to enforcement of any other law.

The same mechanisms that prevent you from breaking law at home, commiting fraud, hurting people, etc. will be used if this law passes. Nothing more, nothing less.

Technocrat delusions on how you'll fight the government with open source are just that. Delusions. They have a wrench and guns.

Re: ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps

#438

Post by mapontosevenths »

hollerith wrote: post #405
mapontosevenths wrote: post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My point is that it wasn't the guns that saved the Algerians. Knives, bayonets, and IEDs would have been equaly effective for the sort of guerilla tactics that eventually won the war.

I find it very unlikely that "knives, bayonets, and IEDs would have been equally effective". The ALN ambushed French convoys and patrols, raided isolated military outposts and police stations and defended themselves when their camps and zones were attacked. I doubt the ALN could have succeeded in those encounters even one tenth as often as they actually did if they had no access or much worse access to guns (with "su…

>Was there a single significant war, rebellion or revolution in the last 100 years where both sides didn't have a gun for every fighter or almost that many guns? I'm not sure, but I doubt it.

Again though, the French like the Americans in Afghanistan, were not defeated on the battlefield. They lost because they got tired of fighting the natives and the war had become politically unpopular.

Howeer, even if I stipulate that the guns are the thing that made the difference it's irrelevant. The Algerians were not legally allowed to own those guns. So the very promise that their right to bear arms is responsible for their victory is unreasonable from the start. They had no such right in Algeria.

Re: ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps

#439

Post by [deleted] »

torified wrote: post #423
jansper39 wrote: post #386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>you will gradually lose control of your government much like how the people of the UK already lost control of theirs. As a UK citizen, can you explain your reasoning here? We haven't implemented anything like the chat control proposal and while a few politicians have brought up similar ideas, there is a lot of pushback against it.

How many surveillance cameras does your government operate again? How much do you trust your current government with the extensive surveillance apparatus they have created? How much do you trust the next government? What about the government after that?

[deleted]

Re: ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps

#440

Post by [deleted] »

rfrey wrote: post #346
troupo wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Start a revolution? You have no weapons. You can't even organize a resistance because all channels of communication are monitored. Unlike which country? The US I presume? I see very much a lack of any revolutions in the US, and the most resistance done in the past few decades was done by people with no weapons. I'd say most revolution-like movements of any kind in the US since the Civil War happened without weapons…

Even further, those who have traditionally been most vocal about second amendment rights are currently the biggest cheerleaders for the current authoritarian trend. Quite the plot twist.

[deleted]
Post reply on HN